Helios Horizons Ep.6 - Enhancing Crypto User Experience and Building Community with Monica Liu of OKX

JB Carthy: 0:01

Welcome to Helios Horizons, episode 6, and today we are pleased to welcome Monica Liu, growth Manager at OKX, to chat to us about building the user experience in Web3. Welcome, Monica, and if you could, would you be able to share a little bit about your background and, for those unfamiliar with OKX, fill us in a little bit about what it is you do?

Monica Liu: 0:29

It's a pleasure to have me today and um, for myself. I started the web3 journey with OKX wallet team. Previously I was working in the traditional finance area and then, with web3 growing so fast we pivot back into the Web3. And I found there are a lot of things in the common ground that we can explore. Together With the OKX team. Previously, I have like trying to get more users from global area for the platform because, you know, the wallet is just a decentralized tool for those degens in crypto can access the on-chain world. So it's not like a centralized platform that users have to put the money. With the platform, it's more like everybody can access the digital assets by themselves. So what we do is trying to enhance the user experience and trying to let more people know us and let more people try the product.

JB Carthy: 1:43

Yeah, thanks for that introduction, great introduction into maybe a little bit of your history and a little bit of an introduction to OKX. As maybe a growth manager at OKX, you touched on trying to grow a global user base for the wallet. Can you give us a little bit of an insight into maybe what does your day look like and what does your role look like as a growth manager at OKX?

Monica Liu: 2:08

Yeah, there are different strategies for doing this. One strategy is we divided different parts from the world. First, like we know, there are several cities where countries are really crazy about the Web3, so we targeting different kinds of places, for example, like Turkey, like India. We targeting those markets, the local markets, and we work with the local channels, local communities and also some partnership with some local good quality projects, trying to raise the attention from the local markets. That's probably one of the strategy. And the other strategy is we work closely with different projects in the Web3. They probably can be the DePin projects, they can be the DeFi projects, so we are trying to work with them and let their users be aware of OKX. Well, so, by doing this way, so there are not just people focusing in one specific area can notice us, but all those people who, when they want to explore the crypto world, their first stop usually is OKX.

JB Carthy: 3:45

No, thank you. I actually was having a look through your Twitter and I was having a little look, just doing a little bit of research before we hopped on the podcast, and I noticed in the last couple of months you, you guys, went on a OKX university tour and I suppose that ties in quite well with what you're talking about trying to reach out to local communities, engage with them where they're at, and also you had some interesting partners. Can you just fill us in a little bit maybe about that university tour and yeah, and about its importance for OKX?

Monica Liu: 4:16

Yeah, exactly. When I first proposed that this plan to the high level, I was thinking that because different. Actually, as I just mentioned about the local market, in different regions, the brand awareness to different community are different. You see what I mean. Some, for example, like, okay, I've started from China, so the crypto users in China actually have highly recommended recognition of the brand. However, we are still growing very fast and when we go into global market, there are still some areas or zones that are not familiar with this brand.

Monica Liu: 5:03

So in the US, the first thing I consider is about the brand awareness. Collaborating with the different, like high education institutions is a very good way for more people to be aware that there is a company called OKX and there is kind of thing. What is wallet? It's more like educate the market, like and also we trying to seeking some good opportunities and providing some hiring positions for those university talents when they are trying to involve more people be interested with the crypto area. So that's why I proposed it. After it was approved.

Monica Liu: 6:04

Internally, we do a lot of executions. For example, we work with a lot of US communities and pushing those information to touch the group of people who are probably be interested in voice crypto and then we work closely with different blockchain clubs in those universities. We I talk with them one by one. I know every single person who helped us to set up the venue, to set up the, to make the events happen, and I also went to Penn University trying to bring more insights from the industry to let more young talents who are interested to have some basic knowledge of the blockchain knowledge.

JB Carthy: 7:02

No, that's a fantastic insight. It sounds like an incredibly interesting journey maybe going, reaching out, getting to connect with some of these communities and in their universities. And the first challenge maybe you touched on was brand awareness and maybe brilliant building that OKX, brand awareness and some of these communities and trying to encourage them to build in collaboration. But I suppose the second thing maybe that crosses my mind is what other obstacles do you find to the adoption of Web3 technologies when you reach out and in your role traveling around chatting to people, what do you find are the obstacles and challenges of educating people about blockchain?

Monica Liu: 7:44

Yeah, that's a good question Because in those 10 events in different universities we actually invited a lot of VC's, investors and also some founders of the project to attend. So during those panels we communicated a lot and we found out there are still a lot of ways to explore the blockchain way, like the mass adoption. Everyone is seeking the mass adoption way, for example, I will say, like DePin and AI is quite a very hot topic that every person, especially those groups from the Silicon Valley in the US, they're crazy about that and there are a lot of startups in AI. They actually pivot their projects to combining with Web3, which I think is a good way to make more people be aware of that. Ai is not just a tool, it's not just a breaking through of the technology, but they can also combine with the capital market and there are more people probably can access this information, not just very geek in those areas, but where the common people. They heard about AI and they can try out the product with their wallet. So that could be a way for them to understand the whole picture.

Monica Liu: 9:27

And another kind of mass adoption I would say is the DePin, because I noticed there are a lot of people actually trying to build some hard like physical device to make that connecting with the wallet, connecting with the blockchain world. So I heard there are a lot of VCs that are actually very interested in this area and also there are some new concepts to invest, like they're trying to build some infrastructure to enhance some experience in blockchain, for example, like the data availability and some new technology trying to make the privacy of encryption be more improved. So, yeah, there are a lot of stories happening and I do believe that when people are trying to invest in these areas, they're going to boom very soon.

JB Carthy: 10:44

No, thank you very much for that insight. As I was listening to you, maybe having a think about some of the things you were saying, and you were talking about maybe how AI and blockchain are beginning to intersect, and then you were chatting about DePin I was just wondering would you be able to fill people in, maybe who aren't so familiar with DePin, maybe what it is and how it has the potential to maybe bring forward levels of innovation?

Monica Liu: 11:16

Sorry, can you repeat the question?

JB Carthy: 11:18

Yes.

Monica Liu: 11:28

I do think DePin is like a angle for those people who are not familiar with web3 to try out and get into this area, because everybody has a phone right and like solana phone, people do need the utility of that physical device and if they don't need to pay any time, don't need to invest any money in that. But as long as they do some easy tasks every single day, they can earn the money and they have to set up the crypto account or crypto wallet to receive those kind of tokens or rewards. So which is so like, very easy with like for for the common people to accept and to dive into with crypto.

JB Carthy: 12:26

Thank you, Appreciate that. Just in terms of another thing, I was actually watching Manchester City playing last night they were playing Tottenham Hotspur and couldn't help notice, but on the sleeve of the jerseys they had OKX and I was just wondering if you'd be able to share an insight maybe about the importance of some of these big brand partnerships that OKX have with some big sporting teams, big events in the world.

Monica Liu: 13:00

Actually I personally cannot share, cannot represent OKX to make any comments on those partnerships, because you know we are a platform and we like trying to create a better ecosystem for the whole industry. And for me I personally, when I like talking about the partnership with their smart contract or the basic on-chain data are not safe for the users. We would never do that. So we are kind of like we are trying to play the role like audit the smart contract, like trying to find out.

JB Carthy: 14:04

Yeah, no, sorry, I actually maybe I didn't explain the question very well, and if it's still not something you can answer, it's no problem. But I was actually just chatting about so Manchester city are a sporting team and they play in the premiership in England. I'm Irish, though sometimes people can't understand me. But just how important are these partnerships to the growth of OKX and maybe to establishing credibility with blockchain and web3 in general and worldwide?

Monica Liu: 14:41

Yeah, it really helps.

Monica Liu: 14:42

I would say, uh, these partnerships like with Manchester, uh the soccer team and also with the Mclaren F1 team, those are, those are already, they have their brand reputation, they have their, yeah, credits in like around the world that people know these names, those kind of big names actually help us a lot, a lot to like go Because. ecause, because people are, for example, like the pictures or in F1 events, the OKX logo or on the McLaren car and right after the Google. So people know Google very well, I bet, and people know McLaren, but most people actually are not familiar with OKX. So they will wonder what is OKX, what this guy doing? Right, they are just right next to Google. So what kind of company can put on site with Google? So it's very interesting. And also, I think from the other perspective we will say the spirit are kind of the same. We are like collaborative and we are open to the world. It's more like the spirit perspective is more like, these two brands.

JB Carthy: 16:15

No, and appreciate that, and I just found myself. You know, obviously, when I started in web3 or when I started exploring blockchain, one of the biggest challenges that I had was learning how to navigate the wallet. You've found the design or I found the design quite complex, difficult to understand. Obviously, as you maybe get a bit more experience in the space, begin to be able to do things a little bit more intuitively, but a lot of times it can still be quite difficult and complex to navigate and some of the intricacies of blockchain and the wallet and try and understand everything that's going on and I suppose, for yourself with OKEx and you were talking about, maybe how some of these sporting brand partnerships can expose you to a bigger audience and help educate people about blockchain and web3 and help bring them in. What do you think are the biggest challenges for new users to Web3, if that makes sense?

Monica Liu: 17:14

Yeah, there are still a lot of obstacles for the new users onboarding the blockchain world. The first thing is how. They need to understand what's the meaning of decentralized because people they already have their user habits, like setting up an account. If they lose their account, they probably need to write an email or to recover the password, reset the password. They already get used to custody all those information, all their data, to a centralized platform. But for the blockchain world it's a little different. Like the wallet, if you lose your safetys, we can call it as kind of a password, but no one can help you to get it back. So you have to custodial your money and take care of your money by yourself. So that's the key difference, but still very hard to most people because there are so many different platforms that you need to remember the username, the password. So if you want their mindset to change to, oh, you have to write down the seed phrase by yourself. That could be a problem from this perspective.

Monica Liu: 18:42

But there's still some technology growing and trying to make the user experience better. For example, like the AA wallet, abstract account wallet and MPC wallet and Achilles wallet, they are trying to make the onboarding process be easier. And yeah, I think that could be one of the most important thing. And the second thing is why do the people need to use the wallet? Why do they need to come up with wallet to try out those products, to interact with different kind of projects? So I think one thing is the project they need to have utility. If you just like, getting some airdrops, they're gonna not sustainable.

JB Carthy: 19:44

So if the product is good enough and I provide the utility for the users, they definitely have a bright future now, I think, when you chat there about like managing seed phrases and I would say that is probably one of the biggest challenges to people navigating blockchain themselves for the first time and trying to self-custody their wallets these 12 words or these 24 words and it can be a little bit nerve wracking for new people entering the space and it might maybe even stop them because they might not trust, or it might stop them from entering because they might not trust themselves to manage it securely, to manage it effectively, and obviously, if you look online, there's a lot of stories that will put you off in terms of people having large amounts of value in wallets losing their seed phrases or the seed phrases being stolen and the funds being gone forever.

JB Carthy: 20:43

So I think, on some of those things you were chatting about, I also think that the user, their user experience and the interoperability piece is going to be really important going forward, and one of the projects we're probably a little bit interested in here, or that I have my eye on, is Burnt Xi on.

JB Carthy: 21:03

They're launching and essentially they have the account abstraction at the protocol layer. So essentially, people are going to be able to log in using traditional methods such as their Google, such as their other Web2 logins that they can use and essentially all the self-custody will be managed underneath. All they'll have to do is log in using the traditional login methods that they have, and then the account abstraction is going to maybe remove some of the complexity of self-custody while still maintaining a lot of the integrity of self-custody. So I think that is going to be a huge piece where people won't necessarily know that they are using blockchain, won't know that they are entering the blockchain, won't know that they are on-chain, but they will simply be on-chain. If that makes sense, and I suppose, from an OKX specific, more OKX specific perspective, how do you guys like to go about tackling some of these user issues with the design of your wallet and the design of your product?

Monica Liu: 22:04

yeah, we have a very large team to hear like every single person, not just the product team but also the, even the engineering, but also the marketing team, operation team. We hear the feedback from the users from different channels. I will put an example here. For example, once we had a campaign with a project like a partnership campaign and when the user they probably lost their seed or because they're misacting on the on-chain they're not very familiar, so they probably have their account freezed or something.

Monica Liu: 23:02

We have the very quick and efficient internal channels to ensure every user's feedback can put in the channel and the whole company can see that problem and follow up with. And it's kind of like distribution platform, like user feedback platform internally, Not the question. If you have any feedback on the product or on the user experience, you can add OKX or DM OKX account and there are a lot of ways to access. Or if you see someone or you know someone working in this area, you can contact with them and let them know the problem, the issue, and they will put in the internal feedback platform. So the whole team can see that If the question, for example, if the question goes to the security team, they will follow up very quickly. If the question goes to the smart contract team, they will follow up very quickly.

JB Carthy: 24:30

No, I tried them, the okx wallet and I have to say I'm impressed and it's obviously, and part of that reason is you guys obviously take a lot of user feedback and then integrate that in the development of the products and in the development of what you're doing, I suppose, with us, you know, at Helios, and we probably have a similar thing, where we have users and they come to us and people stay cause they delegated with us, members of our community.

JB Carthy: 24:55

They're coming to us looking for, looking at us for answers, looking at us for education, and I suppose that's part of the reason we started this podcast. We want to be able to bring some of that education, bring some of that awareness to a wider audience and help support the community. But I suppose, when we touched on a little bit earlier about like Manchester City and some of these bigger and Mclaren and some of these bigger sporting sponsorships, what can smaller teams do who don't have the budgets, for these sorts of bigger endeavors, what can they do for marketing, for development, for community and just bringing, like bringing some energy to the communities if that makes sense and initiating growth in their own areas?

Monica Liu: 25:42

Yeah, yeah, sorry, what was the other question?

JB Carthy: 25:47

I was essentially asking that for smaller teams who might not have the marketing budget, to maybe go after some of these bigger partnerships on a more global level, say like Manchester City and McLaren and the sporting teams, what can small teams do to bring forward growth in their own communities from a marketing and development perspective, if that makes sense?

Monica Liu: 26:13

Sure, yeah, definitely. Not many people, not many companies, can have such kind of marketing budget. Currently. I just see OKX and Binance put a lot of marketing budget on those kind of big partnerships like. From my personal experience to those startups I would say building the community is the key thing for a project to grow. Because, like in crypto, the whole group of people, the amount, are not very large so far. So if you have a good product, like strong product, that's the first thing and you work closely and hear the voice from the community very quickly and also have a lot of interactions to activate the community, that could be a good way to start with it. How to activate the community? That would be another topic.

Monica Liu: 27:24

But from my personal experience I can share like two ways. One way is people come to join your community. Some people come to join just for some giveaways, our jobs or whitelist. You do need to like have some content to do some kind of campaigns with the other projects like the give some points or giving some whitelist or those kind of ways to activate the community. And the other way is you can actually try to push the notification to let them aware that you're building the product, you're working, like trying to enhance your product. Let them know every single progress you have achieved so that the community will be more confident. Like, okay, this team, although they're probably not that big for now, but they are working really hard on the product and we do see there's some utility from the product, so they're going to stick with you guys.

JB Carthy: 28:35

Yeah, I think for of startups, the community is always the priority I agree, and at helios here we're actually developing a d app and for our community and we're staking providers for MultiversX and Injective, and we're developing an application where users will be able to take their decentralized self-custodial wallet and they'll be able to log in, they'll be able to monitor and manage their staking activity with us and then they will also be able to see all of the recent updates from Helios and from some of the other projects that we are involved in and associated with us in one place.

JB Carthy: 29:21

So I do agree with you that, like keeping clear, consistent lines of communication with the community and building transparently and involving them in what you do is definitely a huge, a hugely important aspect of growth. And In terms of your role, mobilizing communities, going out to interesting locations like maybe universities events, and encountering some of the challenges, what do you see as the route forward being in terms of bringing forward more adoption of Web3? Do you find it being an improvement in education, an improvement in user-friendliness of the product, or is it a combination of both?

Monica Liu: 30:09

I would say it's a combination of both. Like those offline events usually can have a lot of conferences all over the world in one year, right, and those crypto people usually are the same group of people heading to different kinds of conferences. So, it definitely can. It has the brand awareness in the crypto field. But, when we back to the real community, not not everyone can see those, offline events. So you have to put those information together, make the secondary marketing, use those kind of events and information to leverage the online marketing. So it's kind of like you have to combine both of them, trying to optimize the effect of the marketing.

JB Carthy: 31:15

No, 100%. Do you find some of the conferences would be primarily targeted towards only people that are involved in crypto, so it's just people who are in crypto or Web3 talking to other people that are involved in crypto or Web3. What opportunities do you see for conferences and events that are maybe focused more towards education and and building awareness in people who are not necessarily already into crypto and web3?

Monica Liu: 31:45

yeah, that's that. I think that's a hard question for most products. Yeah, there's so many different conferences but actually the majority of the people who are heading there are the crypto people. So how to break such kind of group and involve more people in kind of group and involve more people in? I do see some people they are interested in this area so they sponsor themselves to those kinds of conferences to try to get something like learn something. Talk with the industry people to learn something. But these ways actually are still, I would say, not that efficient. It does provide some materials for the marketing and afterwards they can do secondary marketing, write the report or shoot the videos to spread again.

JB Carthy: 33:15

Definitely and, I think, personally. We discussed it on some earlier editions of the podcast. Kevin discussed it on last week's with Sever from MultiversX, trying to bring in, maybe, events. I'm trying to bring in things that people are interested in generally outside of crypto and then integrating crypto into some of those things. So, for example, he touched on maybe hosting a concert with some popular people Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson were bandied around as names that might participate.

JB Carthy: 33:48

And when people are buying the, the tickets, they buy the tickets through cryptocurrency and web3 wallets and when they're paying for their food or paying for their drinks inside, they just get discounts if they pay with crypto.

JB Carthy: 34:01

And it's not necessarily that people are going there and because they like crypto, but it's just it benefits them when they go to the concert to see the people they like playing, and it just benefits them to download the crypto wallet to experience the ease of use, to be able to send payments instantaneously with no fees, to be able to hold their ticket forever in their wallet and yeah, and some of those little piece. So I think, a key really to reaching non-crypto people, in our eyes or in my eyes, would be to integrate the technology into things they are already interested in. And and I suppose, leading on from that and you chatted about some of your experiences, you know, with OKX and leading in and as a growth manager, maybe traveling around some of the events, educating universities and implementing campaigns. From all your experience, from your time, do you have any standout experiences from your time in the space?

Monica Liu: 35:04

Do I have any time?

JB Carthy: 35:08

Do you have any experiences that were particularly memorable from your time in Web3?

Monica Liu: 35:17

Yeah, there are a lot of memorable moments, for example, like the recent Dubai Token 2049, where we arrived in Atlantic hotel to do some panel and, the storm and the flood, the heavy rain happened in Dubai. That could be like one of the most surprising moments, because in such kind of cities it shouldn't be raining so heavily. And I noticed the crypto people. They help with each other because many people they were trapped in the airport, they couldn't get a car or they are forced to land in other countries, but there are a lot of people actually helping with each other. So this is not something about crypto, but from it I can see what kind of group of people, what kind of personality people that are working in this field. I see the passion of this group of people. I see the friendliness of this group of people and we help each other. So I think, no matter this kind of people, like, what kind of project they do, they're going to have some achievements.

JB Carthy: 36:52

No, I was in Dubai as well and I can certainly say it was definitely one of the craziest times or the craziest things I've ever experienced. I think they said it was one and a half years worth of rain fell in one day and like I was driving down the road in the car and I was just thinking like I probably need a boat instead of a car, and flew over for an event that was on the Tuesday and the event was completely cancelled, as were like most other events for a couple of days, and I was actually meant to fly home on the Wednesday and ended up having to stay to the Saturday because just flights were cancelled. But very much the things you were saying as well came to the forefront in terms of in telegram groups and meeting people on the streets. There were a lot of people floating around Dubai who were there for crypto there, and I can definitely speak to how helpful everyone was to each other, just trying to find solutions, help each other, get around and organize things.

JB Carthy: 37:58

If people were maybe stranded, didn't have hotels trying to sort them out, and so, yeah, it was definitely a memorable experience that I had because of crypto, but not directly related to crypto, um, 100 percent. Do you have any, let's say, advice for people, maybe beginning in the space, if that makes sense? So, coming on from that, we chatted about maybe all the things we can do to bring people in, but you have, like, maybe one piece of advice you would give to someone starting and their journey that maybe would make a difference that you wish you had known as you were entering?

Monica Liu: 38:41

First, this industry is still at a very early stage, so there are still a lot of things you can do with it. The hiring bar is getting higher and higher, but still a lot of opportunities open to talents. The second thing is you have to know the basic knowledge of blockchain. What is the decentralization, what is the transparency, what is the data? You don't need to be the very technical guy, but you have to have the basic knowledge to know what it means and what kind of function it can bring to the people, to the world. And third thing is you can pivot with your previous skill set.

Monica Liu: 39:34

It doesn't have to like you start with a whole new thing. You definitely have some expertise from your previous experience. For example, if you're good at marketing, the marketing strategy could be different from the Web3 to Web2, but there are still some common ground you can explore from that way. And if you're an engineer and you can learn how to keep learning, how to write, how to, how to build the product, how to, what a smart contract, like all these new concepts in this area contract, like all these new concepts in this area. So there should be some common common point that you can stand on and starting your new journey with Web3.

JB Carthy: 40:23

No, I definitely think as well that, um, most people should be educating themselves about the blockchain. It's very clear that it's going to have like an integral role going forward. It has the potential to maybe shape different industries. And just one thing that comes to my mind when you were talking about marketing and maybe how it could be integrated in or how it could change marketing is in Europe.

JB Carthy: 40:46

There are very strict like GDPR regulations, which is regulations around data and how people, how companies store data, and maybe the potential of even something like NFT technologies if they were to become integrated with some form of decentralized email system, and how NFTs, combined with email, in some way could replace the traditional newsletter subscription model, where people could burn the NFT and they would no longer receive the newsletter and there is no obligation on either party to actually own or give data to either side.

JB Carthy: 41:27

It's just, let's say, trustless that the NFT that represents the subscription to a newsletter is in a wallet and because it's in the wallet, it gets delivered, but when it's no longer in the wallet, it's no longer delivered. It's a way of maybe integrating some of those technologies, and there's multiple more examples we could run through if we were to go through different industries and how blockchain and the different technologies could start to infiltrate those industries and make them more efficient, but that's probably a conversation for another day. To some extent, at this point of the podcast, we generally maybe ask anyone from the audience or anyone who's listening would they like to come up and ask a question? So if anyone does feel free to request to speak, I'll accept you to come on and if not, what I'll do is I'll have a little look in the comments, see if there's any questions and, but yeah, opening the floor to anybody in the audience who would like to come on and ask Monica Liu, Growth manager at OKX, a question. We have Kevin here inviting him up.

Kevin Lydon: 42:42

I just wanted to thank you for coming on and giving us some insight of what OKX has done and the gravity and the size of what you guys have accomplished in there. It's great to have you. But my question is what main piece of advice would you give to a team that was starting out that wanted to grow their community with a really small budget?

Monica Liu: 43:29

I would say that OKX actually started to earn the revenue from the exchange side. So when we built the wallet or the community, the founder or the management team senior management team they put a lot of efforts and resources to help the wallet to grow up. So that probably not a very good example for most startup projects to learn from. Yeah, I'll be very honest.

Kevin Lydon: 44:04

I actually think I understand. I kind of decoded what you said, and yeah, so essentially, with the exchange side of things, with the revenue coming in from transaction fees, the founders decided to then use some of that money to build the wallet, right, if I'm correct. And so I guess what you're saying is smaller teams with a smaller budget should maybe look at finding revenue from sources that can help fund their community growth. So, for example, they can stake some coin. They could stake USDC stable coins. They could provide liquidity and then start using those funds to start slowly grow their community. So that's a great answer. Now what about? My next question is follow-up. What about organically, without any money? What's something that you could do to get your community involved and maybe just a bit more sticky, so engaged.

Monica Liu: 45:24

I personally will say, like get more friends in crypto, which I mean, if you started from the barrel ground, you have friends right and they help you with, probably doesn't charge for anything. They just want a partnership with you so you can make some noises, make some voice in their communities. In those kind of communities your friends products communities they have the users that might be interested in your product and they could be come to, explore your product. So, yeah, make more friends that's it.

Kevin Lydon: 46:01

That's, that's a good way of putting it. I used to be a travel blogger back in the day, and I used to, yeah, I used to do travel blogging. What you had to do to get big or to get views is make more friends. You joined a Facebook tribe of travel bloggers and you had to prove you're a travel blogger and then you all worked together sharing each other's stuff and eventually, over time, you started seeing some organic growth out there, and not just you talking about yourself.

Kevin Lydon: 46:32

What I found was, at first I was only talking about my experiences, my travel blog and all that, and I never really engaged with anybody else. So I wasn't getting any traffic, I wasn't getting any followers. But when I started talking to other travel bloggers and they started sharing my stuff, then I started getting new people who weren't part of the travel blogger world and grew my audience. So that actually a a really good point and and thank you for that. I'll end on that, for my questioning, but thank you, thank you again for coming on, and everyone here at Helios is really happy, that you took the time today, to come on. So thank you, I'll throw it back to John and anyone else who might have a question.

JB Carthy: 47:16

Thanks Kevin. So I think, actually, while you were chatting about collaboration, there is huge, and we were chatting about it last week with Sever and maybe a couple of weeks earlier with Robert, and then even Lukas on episode one with Rebecca, and was chatting about the importance of community, the importance of community, the importance of collaboration, the importance of working together, and I definitely think it's a theme that, like doesn't just stay and stay within crypto. I think crypto is just like, let's say, another manifestation of it's a system that like has been created, but all the core values that everyone has in their day-to-day life and should be carried forward in how we operate in here and are only going to be beneficial for everybody. It's not different. We're still people in here, we're still people operating and the values of collaboration, community, interacting with each other and looking after, looking after each other, treating each other like friends, is definitely not something that should be neglected or ignored. So I think, Monica, that was a great piece of advice.

JB Carthy: 48:15

There's no more questions as such from the audience, but I suppose we might leave on any final words from yourself, Monica. Maybe a question what are you most excited for with OKX?

Monica Liu: 48:41

will conclude in a very simple way the most excited with OKX is the good platform that provided by OKX for us and a lot of opportunities for us to explore and talk with the partnership, to know the ecosystem very quickly. And the second thing is the whole industry. The most exciting thing is I see there is a bright future and I do believe that there are going to be more and more people interested in and the drawing in with this industry to make, to build this industry better. And also since the government SEC, they actually noticed this industry. I see it as a good signal because when it becomes more compliant, there are less scams and more people are going to start to pay their attention to this industry.

JB Carthy: 49:42

No, I'm definitely excited for just being here, being part of the space and, like you said, witnessing, maybe, the evolution of it and seeing it reach its full potential, seeing it infiltrate all the areas and seeing what the technology can really help us accomplish and what it can help, like everybody, do everybody achieve and improve everybody's lives, because ultimately that's probably why everyone got in and got interested in this technology in the first place was to improve your life in some way. So I think, as the technology grows and develops and seeing the full potential of it and how it's going to enhance everything around us is going to be very exciting to witness. But, Monica, I have to say thank you very, very much for coming on, really appreciate it and and yeah, it was a pleasure, thank you very much. And in terms of today just a recap for everyone who joined later or is listening, we were chatting to Monica Liu of OKX, growth manager at OKX and she came on and chatted about the importance of the user experience in web3, shared her experience as a growth manager and maybe talked about some of the different ways that brands can help grow and engage their communities and how we as a whole can drive forward more adoption in web3.

JB Carthy: 51:04

Next week, we have Pyth joining us and a team member for from Pyth joining us on the podcast. Looking forward to that and hopefully see you guys all here same time next week. And yeah, thanks, have a great evening. Talk soon.