JB Carthy: 0:00

Welcome to Helios Horizons, episode 36. Today we're chatting to Cynthia from Scrib3 about building a Web3 audience. I'm looking forward to chatting about all things marketing socials and getting attention in Web3. Pleased to have you with us, cynthia, and maybe you know, for the people tuning in and even for myself you know first time chatting and maybe a little bit of a background to yourself and your journey.

Cynthia Bahati: 0:27

Yeah. So my journey was very long winded and I actually got into crypto kind of in an unconventional, unconventional way. So a little bit of background. I was an engineering student and I had this professor, my calculus professor, come to me one day and he's like you know what? You're a bright student, but I don't think engineering's for you. He's like I think you should be a PR and like a tech, a technology PR person, because you ask great questions and you're a people person and you're great at communication, but engineering is not for you. So I later took his advice and I started a career in PR and comms at a crypto native marketing agency that's actually based in Britain and I got to work with major names like Interscope Records and that was my first job in crypto, which is again kind of unconventional in that way. But from then I've always like worked in like comms and marketing. So I haven't really had like a technical job per se, which is funny because like my background is technical.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:47

At the start of like the NFT boom, I saw the potential to like merge my love for creativity with the work that I was doing in Web3. And I instigated Her Story DAO, which was the first women-led DAO that supported, you know, nft artists in this space and we were able to raise over $70,000 to support artists. And, yeah, like, off the back of that success, I launched a crypto native growth agency with my mom who's in the audience, listening very supportive, and that was really like a bootcamp experience on how to grow in Web3. We used gamification strategies which I'd love to talk to you more about in depth later and we were really focused on growing communities. One of the most successful stories is SWE. We grew SWE from 15,000 followers to 224 members and that was awesome, right. So I was going on this high in a career. That was awesome, right.

Cynthia Bahati: 2:49

So I was going on this high in a career and then, as you know, around 2020-23, the market completely crashed and that was very difficult for a really small bespoke. You know, like mom and pop agency, we weren't a huge agency. It was just me, my mom and like family, um, so at that point, I decided to leverage, like, my experience in marketing and branding and I joined a, a funded startup, um, really smart team of people from like MIT and Harvard and they were working on uh meme coins and, um, that was my first like in-house marketing role head of marketing role, where I was doing more of the social side, because I'd always done PR and community and I was doing social media management on a daily basis and BD, like I think you know you know the, you know the the story about how marketing hires are in web3 you don't just do what you sign up for, you do everything else. So that was a great experience and that was also my first time marketing for a project that hadn't quite yet found product-to-market fit and eventually the founders decided to do something else, which happens in crypto and in tech. And yeah, so recently I joined Scrib3 and in tech.

Cynthia Bahati: 4:02

And yeah, so recently I joined Scrib3, which is another crypto native agency, and I like working at agencies because I feel like it's bootcamp for your skills, like if you are listening and you want to get into marketing, you want to learn about marketing. I think agencies are a great place to start. There's a lot of great marketing agencies that are specific to crypto. Great place to start. There's a lot of great marketing agencies that are specific to crypto. And, yeah, I just want to up level and learn a lot about social media specifically because, again, I was doing more community, more PR in the past. So yeah, that's a little bit about me in a nutshell.

JB Carthy: 4:40

And no, I have to say that is a like incredible journey and like definitely one of the most interesting stories that no, you're OK and definitely one of the most interesting stories or journeys that we've had on the podcast. So I'm looking forward to diving into, diving into it with you and maybe let's take it back. You know, you say the first experience you had was with Interscopeope records back in 2021, getting into the space and maybe, first of all, what was it like working with such an established brand who are maybe trying to um experiment with web3 and and then like how different was the space back then and to where it is now?

Cynthia Bahati: 5:22

oh, that's a really really good question.

JB Carthy: 5:24

Um yeah, so when I was, and you and you can think, and you can think about it like you know we can, we can chat through it like I'm just genuinely curious to hear your insights, you know yeah, yeah, 100%, I think, like in 2021.

Cynthia Bahati: 5:37

Well, let me start by prefacing this. By how long have you been in this space? Just so?

JB Carthy: 5:42

um.

JB Carthy: 5:43

So I first started dabbling in around 2020 um and I would say then I um started getting into learning more and writing more, creating more content and reaching out to more people making connections, had the pleasure of so kevin is the founder of helios staking and had the pleasure of, of getting to know him better and then like beginning to contribute with Helios and from there I've just been going wherever the wind takes me, following opportunities and just seeing how I can add value and move forward and learn new things and apply them. But yeah, since around 2020 was kind of like when I first started experimenting and like getting to know things.

Cynthia Bahati: 6:24

Okay, so we're kind of we've kind of been in crypto for the same amount of time, which I think makes us like veterans, but you can also attest to this like crypto was really different five, four years ago. I would say one of the differences was projects were more focused on long-term building and everyone had a white paper. And I think meme coins have really significantly changed the hype cycle, but we can get into that later. But anyways, interscope Records was one of many legacy brands that were wanting to dive into the metaverse and Web3. And I was helping their artists many legacy brands that were wanting to dive into the metaverse and web three and um, I was helping their artists Like they had a roster of artists that they that they wanted to kind of like revamp their image and bring them into the modern era, and one of those people was, uh, mick Jagger and, um, I got to work with him and his team and the idea around that is you know, mick Jagger is this legend, he's a rock and roll icon and he's still a part of Interscope Records. So they still like develop artist careers even when they're 70 years old. So they really just wanted to make him appeal to a younger audience and a younger demographic make him appeal to a younger audience and a younger demographic.

Cynthia Bahati: 7:47

So we worked with an artist in the Netherlands. He created this visual graphic that would accompany Mick Jagger music and that was the NFT piece. So, on the actual promoting that, it was honestly a really great NFT and I missed the NFT cycle. I'm not going to lie. There was a lot of great effort and art that came out of that.

Cynthia Bahati: 8:08

But I learned right away the importance of having people that care about community. Community is number one in Web3. And I learned this because Mick Jagger, bless his heart, did not want to promote the work that he'd done because he's like I'm a legend, I don't need to promote this. And he didn't want to do any kind of Twitter spaces or clubhouse or any. He didn't want to talk to the community member or community members.

Cynthia Bahati: 8:38

And when it came down to doing the auction for the NFTs because he didn't want to integrate with the Web3 community, someone in his inner circle ended up buying it and I think they didn't make as much money for charity that they were hoping to make. You know what I mean. So that was the first time where I was like I checked all the boxes, I got him in all of the press, all of the magazines, but if the artist or the creator doesn't want to connect or integrate with the community, it's it like it's not going to matter no, definitely, um, and just like, obviously that must have been a amazing experience, obviously, first of all, working with like people who really got to the top of their fields and and he was obviously an incredible artist for so long.

JB Carthy: 9:26

And who knows, now with like AI and holograms, people may live forever, or at least their ability to perform may go on forever and people can earn royalties in like perpetuity. But what was it like trying to teach to him and help him understand what he was actually doing? Did he get it pretty quickly? Do you think he ever really got it at all? And but yeah, what was it like trying to maybe onboard someone, obviously from a different generation and into understanding and the technology and what it could, what it could do?

Cynthia Bahati: 9:59

you know, I think that nfts had a stronger like product market fit. I think that they were kind of universally like easy to understand in some ways. So surprisingly there wasn't a huge learning gap. But I think the culture thing it wasn't like a fit. You know what I mean. Like from web two, your legacy is important, but web three it's again how you integrate to the crypto community. That's important.

JB Carthy: 10:27

No, no, for sure. And was was like what was the NFT project? Just out of interest, like what was kind of the selling point or what was the, what was the value proposition of it going to be?

Cynthia Bahati: 10:38

Yeah, it was. So it was. It was a charitable nft, I remember that, and you would get like a new mick jagger song or something, accompanied by, uh, this 3d art by like a quite a famous um, I forget the name of him uh, a famous dutch artist, so it was.

JB Carthy: 10:58

It's quite, you know, for the people who are interested in that stuff, quite valuable, but yeah no 100 and say like, after that we'll move on from like interscope and move on from that period, but after that, like and maybe where it didn't go as well as hoped as it, as it was hoped, um, did you feel that maybe it put a sour taste in people's mouths around him, like within the company, in terms of experimenting with and the technology in the future?

JB Carthy: 11:24

And do you feel like certain and failures of events like this have kind of prevented and people like you know nfts haven't really had the same level of innovation around them or integration around them in in this cycle, if you want to like talk in cycles, and do you think maybe the failures of some of the projects or like maybe, let's say, the lack of success or the lack of lack of hope success of some of the projects or like maybe, let's say, the lack of success or the lack of lack of hope success of some of these projects earlier and when nfts first came around in like 2020, 2021, have meant that, like, more established companies have been reluctant to maybe incorporate them in their strategies going forward?

Cynthia Bahati: 12:01

you know what? That's a really, really great question. I think the the biggest NFT killer wasn't like some people had successes and some people had failures, because Interscope had a lot of artists that they were working with that did integrate well and were able to make those conversion numbers. Chris Brown I don't remember what record label he was with, but I know that he did pretty good with his NFTs. Um, I think the biggest NFT killer was actually FTX. I think that really just kind of stopped the music for everything. Um, you remember that scandal? So, um, I don't know if we're ever going to see the sort of NFT resurgence that we saw before, but I will say that in 2021, companies across not just music but like fashion companies like LVMH, were really pushing getting into the metaverse and getting into like digital um, digital spaces and getting into web 3 um, and they are still pushing it now, but more more so ai now, um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I have a solid answer to your question, but it is an interesting point no, that's fair.

JB Carthy: 13:18

I don't think there will ever be like a solid answer to the question because, you know, everyone's always experimental and expert. Like, the technology just exists. The technology just is what it is and people and companies will find different ways to integrate it, to create solutions or provide value in ways that they may not otherwise be able to provide value, or it may just be in a more efficient way of providing value. So, yeah, I find it interesting to think about as well. Like you know, if you even think back to like around that time like I think it was 2022, 2023 I should probably write a little bit earlier than that but like facebook rebranding to meta and like making the big metaverse play and I I can't help but feel obviously they haven't really I'm stuck with that direction going forward.

JB Carthy: 14:01

But it can't help but feel that early metaverse hype definitely had um had a little bit of influence and I do think obviously nfts just exists, they are what they are and probably their their time in terms of like just purely being used as like a method of speculation and people trying to hit the lottery with them, has probably been replaced by meme coins but I do think, like they, they will have a place and they will find their place as a technology and in the future as people just experiment with different things.

JB Carthy: 14:29

But then obviously, like you touched on as well on, this is really interesting. Would love to learn more about you moved on to her story now and I would love to learn a little bit more about that part of your journey. And yeah, um, let's dive in yeah, yeah.

Cynthia Bahati: 14:47

So her story dow was um again these. I kind of was just following trends and waves for a really long time and aren't, aren't?

JB Carthy: 14:57

aren't we all, though, like you know, we're all learning. I'm like you know, there's there's not a lot of history to go on.

Cynthia Bahati: 15:04

Exactly. And, you know, as the NFT wave was going up and down, the DAO thing was actually quite a big thing in crypto, I'm sure you remember, for about like a year or two before people realized that they actually don't work Like they're like functionally they just don't work. I learned the hard way, but no, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, we started Her Story, tao. I started it because there was there was artwork that I wanted to collect, um, you know, being in the NFT space and um, I was also thinking about fractional ownership, which was a big thing at the time, and I wanted to see if there was anyone else that would want to go in on different art pieces. And the response was was sort of massive and the DAO just kind of formed organically around wanting to support and collect the work of women in the space.

Cynthia Bahati: 16:02

And, yeah, some things just have a life of their own, like, you just come up with the idea and then the world just receives it. And that was one of those things where it became bigger than what I thought it would, cause I just thought I was going to collect a few NFTs and then be done with it. But yeah, we actually had like a NFT gallery in New York city and we that's where we were able to raise those money and auction off some of the art in person, which was really, really fun. You know, connecting what we do online in crypto to actual in real life activations and yeah that. But that didn't last long, because DAOs, we learned, function, have a lot of organizational structural issues, but it was a great learning experience.

JB Carthy: 16:51

Yeah and like obviously that sounds like incredible. The fact that you were able to be part of starting this project and raise a significant amount of money, help bringence and to like artists in the space and female artists in the space, and and then like to be able to like hold, as you said, like an in a real life activation, is still a massive success story. So well done, like you know, significant, like a great congratulations. And like sounded I'd love to have seen it at the time and but I probably wouldn't have appreciated the art because I'm not sophisticated, I'm Irish. But like I would have, I would have appreciated your work, your work that went into it and like it is a, it was a great achievement. But when you say like dao's don't work and what were? Maybe so what was the original intent behind the dao? And and like say why do you feel it didn't? I know obviously what a dao is. And I like say why do you feel it didn't? I know obviously what a DAO is and.

JB Carthy: 17:47

I like say like what was the DAO trying to govern and why do you feel like it didn't necessarily turn out as well as you would have hoped?

Cynthia Bahati: 17:54

Yeah, I mean, well, the general utopian. You know, in a perfect world, the view of a DAO is this organization that runs autonomously, without one central head or leadership, and that is probably possible in the future when we have like more advanced like structural organizational mechanisms, with with blockchain and stuff like that. Um, but I think that and this is like I'm not, this is not a unique story, this has happened across pretty much all daos um, that at some point you realize that it needs leadership. Um, we're not in a post leadership society yet and there's going to be someone or a team of people or a council of people that are going to need to make executive decisions, especially when you're governing something as subjective as art Like art is probably the most subjective thing, cause I think something is beautiful, you probably think it's ugly, you know.

Cynthia Bahati: 18:55

We can go back and forth around it for hours. I think DAOs that are governing less subjective things, like like financial DAOs, like where it's just you know one plus one or you know it's it's a lot easier, but there's still hurdles there. I think for us it was just too subjective and we couldn't agree on what was worth investing in at one point. So, yeah, it's just like we want to, to create these decentralized systems, but at the end of the day, we are humans and humans are going to do what they want to do.

JB Carthy: 19:27

so no, definitely, and I can 100% see that and would add to that and, like um, I'd agree, and I think, like you know, there's probably just a problem with how obviously it sounds great. In theory it sounds great, um, oh, we're all going to have an equal say, but, yeah, probably when it comes down to it, like you know, if we're talking about like one token or one nft piece equals and one vote in among a supply, and you obviously have the problem where, like, people can buy up more of the supply and have a larger vote and maybe they necessarily might not have the expertise to actually understand fully the decisions they're making, and so that's probably a problem where, like you know, the best qualified person to make a better decision and might not necessarily be the person who has the power to own the most pieces. So it's like that sort of voting power method, like I know, it can obviously work in some contexts, but, like, obviously, when you're talking here and trying to judge more subjective things mightn't have worked so well. Um, and then the other part, like I think you touched on, and I think it's definitely, it's interesting to see how downs will evolve, I think, same as um, same as we touched on, you know, with like nfts, and we touched on, like how, the Mick Jagger project. They'll probably come back in a more modest form and in the future, maybe not even branded as NFTs.

JB Carthy: 20:47

Um, not foresee so much the problem of not having a hierarchy of decision making, kind of tying into the first point where like, okay, it's going to be impossible to come to a consensus if there are like 3 000 people who want different things and have different ideas and like maybe some sort of like the dow voting on a hierarchy, but then someone being given, or like a few people being given, a more unilateral and decision-making power and like as you said, executive decision-making power is probably a more efficient methods for method for some dows to explore moving forward in the future, depending on the context they're applied in.

JB Carthy: 21:32

But I think like look, I think I say this about defy as well, and this is why I find your journey so interesting is everyone always, and again, it's of no consolation that people are affected by failures of smart contracts, of systems of wallet hacks, of all these things in DeFi. But it's kind of like the aviation industry where, ultimately, what makes the aviation industry touch wood and one of the safest like industries in the world is because every um, every failure, every accident is like studied and understood and examined so like relentlessly and in depth. That essentially like it lessens the chance of a similar event ever happening in the future.

JB Carthy: 22:14

And I think it's the same thing with, like, all these things that hurt at certain moments and and a lot of people invested a lot of money in because they saw, they thought it would have a certain success or a certain value in the future.

JB Carthy: 22:26

But all the things we've built, all the things we've tried to build build as a space are just giving like, are just things for future builders to learn from, to understand, to build upon, to take the good, maybe get rid of the things that didn't work so well and build something even greater.

JB Carthy: 22:46

And it's like you know, it's kind of like like we can, we can walk, so they can fly, kind of thing. All the people who have been through the pain are like, have like, really kind of helped accelerate and help like the space and and people understand what, in what way the technology works well and what way it doesn't, things that need to be improved, but ultimately, like, everything is an experiment and everything gives an opportunity to learn, and that's why I just think, like the, the fact you guys got so far, even if it ultimately didn't turn out exactly the way at the very end you might have wanted to turn out, is something to be proud of and is great. So congratulations on that. And it doesn't stop there, because now obviously we're moving into starting like very unconventionally, like a web3 agency with your mom and like so tell me, did you get your mother into crypto or how did that like come about? Like, if that makes sense yeah, or was it?

JB Carthy: 23:43

was it a case if she was a marketer, or yeah?

Cynthia Bahati: 23:45

like I just let's go, like I want to hear set the record straight, she's like a bigger influencer than me at this point, but I brought her into marketing and she'll attest to that. Um, well, she was in um banking, so she had a financial background. Um, and she's been in like finance and real estate her whole adult career and at one point after university I was like interning at her bank and I hated it. I was like I used to grow up saying like I'll never get a job. I'll be rich and famous, and then life happens, you know.

Cynthia Bahati: 24:27

But, um, I remember I was interning and I was reading about blockchain and I was like wow, like I wonder if banks could integrate like blockchain and crypto. And I even talked to like some management at the bank and I'm like, hey guys, I think you guys should really consider having this. Obviously, they would never because, like crypto would make banks obsolete, right. But at the time, I was very wide-eyed and eager and, yeah, I left to do crypto and she stayed on and I was like, mom, you should really do this, this is the future, I think you would love it. You should really do this, this is the future, I think you would love it. And, yeah, she got into crypto. She's more DeFi than me. She trades every day and I don't love trading. I'm too emotional to trade.

JB Carthy: 25:12

But, yeah, that's so. She's a sophisticated user, she likes to explore the finer technologies. That's so interesting and like, let's say, um, what was the process? Like, obviously, like you, you had the internship at the bank and weren't necessarily enjoying it so much and saw the opportunities, um, to improve some of the inefficiencies or things you saw that weren't being done so well on the bank, solvable by like blockchain.

JB Carthy: 25:42

and then that journey of like introducing your mom to the technology, to then, getting to the point of like running an agency together and, like I'd, love to learn more about that process of like that gap in between, of like being introduced to technology to running a very successful agency, as we'll move into like the, some of the tactics and like the methods you guys use. Guys use if that makes sense, but like, yeah, let's go on the journey of like okay, introduced to the technology to founding the agency yeah, okay, great, great point.

Cynthia Bahati: 26:11

This is fun to relive. Well, I will say covid changed the world. Obviously, a lot of people started working remote and I was. I was living with my parents at that time as well, and I was with them all the time. My mom was working from home, my dad was working from home and they were seeing me watch YouTube videos on TV about blockchain and my parents would watch it. So they were interested.

Cynthia Bahati: 26:36

But the shift sort of happened when my mom was seeing the money I was making in DeFi and she was like, wait, how is this real? Is this internet money or is this real? And she was like, you know, curious and she wanted to learn more. And we found a DeFi project that we really liked and, um, we started doing like marketing for them and we weren't paid to do it, but we just kind of just did it. That's kind of web three.

Cynthia Bahati: 27:04

We joined the discord and just started moderating and then the founder was like you guys are doing great, we're bringing so many new eyes to the project, why don't you just come on like officially and do marketing? And yeah, we both aren't really trained in marketing, but I think my mom has this like gift for sharing stories and growing communities and I must have inherited that somehow. So we, yeah, no, no prior training, no formal training really, and it's just what we kind of just fell into doing. And then from there, that's when the PR agency scouted me because they're like we've seen the work you've been doing in DeFi and we want you to be PR. So that was my sort of story and my mom this is going to sound crazy, but the DeFi project we were marketing for the founder was like you know what? I made so much money on my board ape that I quit and he asked my mom to take over the company and she did, which is an insane story.

JB Carthy: 28:07

Oh, I ought to be back. I ought to be back in those times. It's like they seem.

JB Carthy: 28:16

They seem so far away now and like I'm actually like interested, so you just jumped in into the discord, like the beautiful story, just getting involved, helping out, adding value, end up like then contributing significantly. But what are the differences? You see, obviously, at that moment there's massive differences in the market. I'd say. Obviously the first thing we can say is like the sheer amount of competitors and people vying for attention in the space um is like significantly larger than it probably was back then. But what are the key differences that you see in the space between then and now, if that makes sense, from like like yeah, like let's go, let's go with that. From there, in terms of like jumping in, growing a brand, would you think it would be possible to do it in the same way you did then or you guys did then now, or do you think it would have? It would be a little bit more difficult I don't want to use the word difficult.

Cynthia Bahati: 29:12

I don't want to deter anyone from trying. I think that there definitely is a lot more mercenary actors in crypto. There's a lot of people that are here to extract money Because, if you, the whole time I was talking, like, money is a bonus and it was a bonus for us, but that we were passionate about the technology, and those people who are passionate about Web3 and crypto are the ones that make a difference and stay long term. And if that's you, if you're listening, then I don't want you to be like, oh, like it's way harder to get into it now. Like, I think if you really are passionate about something, then it's always possible for you.

Cynthia Bahati: 29:50

I just want to start with that um, on the brand and and like, uh, marketing side of things, there are a lot more sophisticated brands. You, you know, at Scrib3, we were helping build like lasting brands, so there's a lot more sophistication. So that means it's a lot more competition for starting a new brand. Like, for sure, there's a lot of noise in crypto, twitter it's a lot harder to break through the noise, but if you want to you know work in crypto I think that, like, there's so many opportunities and, john, you can correct me if you or you know if you disagree, but I think that there's more opportunities in Web3 marketing today than there ever was.

JB Carthy: 30:35

So, yeah, um so yeah, no, I agree, I agree, um, and I I definitely think, like, as you said, the space is a lot noisier and that's kind of why I was interested. I agree there's a huge amount of opportunities out there, um, and obviously I'm grateful to be in the space and exploring them and learning and growing um. But I think something you touched on I'd agree, like not deterring anybody from um trying or not, just because something is harder does not mean it's worth doing, and arguably, the more attention something brings to it, the probably the more valuable or the more like, the more you should probably pay attention, pay attention to it subsequently. But and then I suppose, like maybe when you were touching on saying, okay, you had the DeFi brand, were there and we wouldn't deter anyone from exploring marketing, but probably I think you made actually the point which probably hits the hardest and maybe just hits the nail on the head, for want of a better word.

JB Carthy: 31:35

But it's like a lot of the good people, or the people maybe who have better intent, if we want to call it, are probably being drowned out by a lot of the good people, or the people maybe who have better intent, if we want to call it, are probably being drowned out by a lot of people who have maybe less good intent but have mastered the art of quickly getting attention and then maybe taking advantage, like through marketing through storytelling for through community building, for like more with more malicious intent, without any real long term intent behind it. Marketing through storytelling for through community building, for like more for more with more malicious intent, without any real long-term intent behind it. And and yeah, it's probably a little bit harder for like people who are honestly building, trying to look to build a sustainable thing, to compete with people who are willing to say absolutely anything to get attention, liquidity at any moment, if that makes sense.

Cynthia Bahati: 32:27

Yeah, exactly.

Cynthia Bahati: 32:27

So, from, like, the builder perspective, I think that there's a lot more noise to cut through and the positive of that is that if you're authentic, then it's kind of like a breath of fresh air at the moment. So building an authentic brand um is a far more impactful now. And on the, uh, the, the, the individual person who may not be a builder but wants to, you know, join a marketing role or join a community role, um, the advantage of having a lot more companies is that, again, there's a lot more roles. But, yeah, I'm curious, like, with the way that Web3 is today and I know we're probably going to get into it a little bit more. But have you been thinking of ways that like new ways to grow an audience with Web3 today, like coming off the back of, uh, low sentiment in the market and now you know, libra token like um? That's something I think about a lot, having worked in gentry media and it, of course, crypto was different back then, but I think some of the same stuff we were doing back then may still apply.

JB Carthy: 33:34

but curious to see if you're if you're thinking about that at all yeah, and I actually was like just about to maybe ask you something similar to dive into maybe some of the not necessarily today, but like the tactics you guys, or some of the strategies you guys employed, um, in terms of growing the swedish court when you were there, but in terms of, for me, when I look, it's just I wonder are we essentially continuously preaching to the converted all the time and trying to convince each other who are already convinced of the value of the technology, that the technology is valuable? And we are probably not doing a good enough job overall as a space at bridging the gap between those who, like, don't understand the technology, don't understand the benefits, between those who, like, don't understand the technology, don't understand the benefits it could bring. I don't mean, as in the abstract, benefits that people don't really care about, which is like, like there it's important, like the decent, the decentralization is important, the permissionless nature is important, but it's probably very hard to like fully understand the value of those things until you're in a position where you don't have those things. So, probably for people who are, um, unbanked, or people who, like, don't have a lot of money and want to send money international, internationally, with low cost like, though, then decentralization, permissionless global systems matter a lot, but it's very hard for, like you know, and people like touch wood and like very grateful to be born in a place where didn't necessarily have to worry about being able to like have money, send money, access financial services, all these kinds of things, but we're not really probably talking in language or talking in channels where people are hanging out that are not using the technology but understand, like what it could bring. So, like rather than like just put depositing your money into the bank and they're getting, essentially them using your deposits to then lend out to borrowers and essentially keeping a margin of probably six, seven, eight percent between the lending and the borrowing your deposits and them lending it out, and you're getting like you're just getting eaten away by inflation in the meantime.

JB Carthy: 35:40

How about experimenting with stable coins and putting some into a lending protocol where you you now are the bank and like you are earning the margin and like if you were to say, for us we're like like 12 on a stable coin, like I want 100x on fa or something, but the point is like I think we've like lost the appreciation of, like maybe how comparatively valuable some of the technologies and how eliminating the middleman can offer so much value for services that are already in demand for people, like around the world.

JB Carthy: 36:13

Everyone wants higher returns, higher, safer returns on their savings. So I like even the simplest things like onboarding people for faster, more cost-effective payments where they don't have to ask for permission for their bank to send them for, like lending out stable coins. I don't think we're doing enough of a job of relatively comparatively explaining and the benefits the technology could bring, like relative to things that people are already using and at scale, and we're probably not reaching them in the channels where they are hanging out and we are probably just we talk about ct or crypto twitter, but it's just probably a case of people who already like the technology or broadly at least know about the technology and are just already using it and talking to each other about how good it is and how it's the future, but it's like okay, the technology exists for people to use it, so how are we going to get more people to understand how it actually makes their life better as opposed to just sitting there and like admiring it, if that makes sense?

Cynthia Bahati: 37:10

well, that is a great point. Like there's so much you can say about this. Like, um, like, yeah, I, I agree with what you said about we're kind of talking in this echo chamber of other crypto enthusiasts who've already, you know, bought the dream and you're not in crypto today.

JB Carthy: 37:30

If you don't believe, like trust me, we've been through a lot you're loyal, we're, we're going, we're going through a lot, we're going through a lot.

Cynthia Bahati: 37:39

We're going through a lot. So at this point you have to believe Wow, okay. So I have a different viewpoint from this, because I do think, yes, we need to do a better job at bridging the gap and talking to the literal rest of the world. And yeah, I have a lot of thoughts around that. But also, kind of complimentary to that, I do think that even like the tech companies that we have today, I don't think that they do a great job explaining their tech to crypto native people either. So we're kind of in this catch 22 where we need to grow but we're not even that good at explaining what we're doing to ourselves.

Cynthia Bahati: 38:23

Like, there's a lot of people in crypto that couldn't define what ZK proofs do, but they keep getting funded for projects and yeah. So that's sort of my thinking. Like I know, with Scrib3, we work with like very, very, very technical companies, for instance, that are speaking to crypto-native people, but even crypto-native people just can't wrap their mind around what they're doing or why they should care. So we kind of have that bridge to cross and then the larger mountain at stake and most importantly, is communicating to the rest of the world. But I think we have to distill our messaging, and that's basically what I do on a day-to-day basis. I'll work with an account or a client and my work is to simplify. Like Steve Jobs, let's simplify this. So I should change marketer to simplifier, because I'm constantly, constantly saying the same thing thing.

JB Carthy: 39:17

Let's simplify our messaging to amplify, simplify to amplify and um, yeah, so that I think when you, when you call yourself the simp, I'll like call myself like confused.

JB Carthy: 39:28

I think when I talk, people just get more confused so you can probably teach me a thing or two, but I'd be interested to know, like so, what you were saying, like maybe you think a slightly different direction to some of the things I was saying in terms of maybe more tangibly pointing out the practical benefits the applications that are available can offer over existing products that people use on the day to day and are already integrated in their life simply because they need to use them. What do you think is I'm not saying better or worse, but an alternative method that you are thinking about of how we can reach more eyeballs, how we can attract more attention, some of these things. What are you thinking on that regard? Because you obviously have a lot of experience, you've seen the evolution and had a lot of success, and I'm just interested to hear your takes on it.

Cynthia Bahati: 40:13

Yeah. So there's this really great book called Contagious how Things Grow and Spread, and it's about viral marketing tactics and the basic idea is like you can do everything to try to get someone to sell things you can build. You know, have billboards, marketing activations, spend millions and millions of dollars in ad spent in ad spent. But time and time again, marketers have found that the most effective way to get someone to believe in something is just to like word of mouth marketing is just to tell them or just to have them hear it from a trusted friend. And I think right now, like here's my thinking around how do we connect the rest of the world to Web3? I think the rest of the world wants to be involved.

Cynthia Bahati: 41:05

I think, like, people know about crypto and they have like a visceral reaction. They either hate it or love it. But you know, most people aren't that neutral to it. Most people aren't that neutral to it, and I think that what we can do is we can create a better ecosystem for the people who are in crypto Twitter. So when, like, we tell our friends about it and they get onboarded, it's like yeah, I don't know it's, it's a, it's an easier set sale.

Cynthia Bahati: 41:34

Like right now it's quite like crypto is quite a hard thing to sell to your friends because like not only okay, like how do you get a stable coin? Right, you got to like get a wallet and you got to do like KYC and then that takes a few days and then you have to remember your seed phrase and if you lose it, like well, that sucks for you. You've just lost all your money. Like I think there's like, but like things we need to figure out in terms of the product and the ecosystem, and I am of the belief that when that is figured out, the world will kind of get it. And we saw that with NFTs. Nfts kind of just sold themselves and I think when something is great, it sells itself. And that's also like luxury brands.

JB Carthy: 42:24

You'll never see like a Louis Vuitton commercial, because Louis Vuitton and Hermes, they sell themselves and that's maybe wishful thinking, but I really believe things like stable coins are so fundamentally like innovative that once they get through the barrier of like, uh, like they lower the barrier to entry to where you just need a cell phone and you don't need a wallet to get stable coins, then it's going to sell itself and I actually think, exactly like you said, selling itself is and like word of mouth, I agree, I actually fully agree and I think we're kind of in alignment in some ways, because I think probably all the things we were I was kind of mentioning are only possible when, like the user, when the user is being is able to be connected with the experience in a way that makes sense to them, but they don't have to go on a learning journey to get to that point. Um, but I actually think, you know, there's a lot of interesting wallet management solutions, there's a lot of protocols and there's a lot of products developing like interesting abstraction solutions. So in terms of being able to create a wallet and in the same way you would and log in with google or log in with x, like the normal sort of account creation methods that people have come to expect and that the general user, digital user experience people have come to expect, is getting closer to realization, like in Web3. And it's probably while still maintaining self-custody, while still maintaining decentralization through like, or at least an element of decentralization through like, or at least an element of decentralization through encrypted cloud storage of seed phrases and these sorts of things. There's obviously different approaches to solving these problems, but the solutions are making people, making it easier to get people on board with a wallet, which is their entry point to an ecosystem in a way that is easier than was available before and more familiar to them than was available available to them before. And also the security is becoming and a little bit less of a concern, because a lot of these and new wallet solutions and that are evolving and building and growing and building with the future consumer in mind, are kind of considering these challenges. So I I agree and I actually think we're getting to a good place in an interesting place, where I even think we're going to go a step further in the future, where it's okay, we've now got these onboarding points that are easy and I've got my wallet, but I want to get to this app and I think they're kind of like a meme at this point or like they're kind of cliches, but like interoperability and abstraction, like are just going to be like massive, are just going to be like massive.

JB Carthy: 45:01

The gap, like the gap between a user's intent and the execution of the and the execution of their intent. So signaling their intent and executing their intent has to be like simplified so much. So people like say they have a wallet but the wallet only has like ethereum usbc on it. They log into an app on like solana, like a social let's say a social media app is created and then they're like oh my god, like this, I can't send like any, I can't send any of my money there. Why not? I have to go learn about bridging and all these sorts of things. And then I eventually get my money over to solana and it's stuck there because I have no solid my wallet and I can't like use any gas fees. And I'm like oh my god, what do I do now? And now I have to go to a centralized exchange and try and find some sol and send it to the wallet and I have to do some kyc for that like or whatever.

JB Carthy: 45:45

But I think like so abstracting gas fees. And I think it's going to get to a point where, like it'd be absurd, like people would just like laugh at you if you thought, like if you launched like a web 2 application, um, or like a traditional internet application, um, and you were to say like okay, you have to pay a cent for every single transaction you do every single like you do on the platform, every single comment like you have to pay. You have to pay like money to do it. So I think it's going to get to a point where, like protocols are going to start like it's getting super competitive in terms of people offering incentivization programs to provide liquidity, attract users, all these sorts of things. So I think it's almost going to come to a point where, like gas fees are going to become, and like completely subsidized either by protocols or applications, competing for users and because they're obviously just trying to make the end product as easy to use for the consumer as possible.

JB Carthy: 46:35

And and I think then, when we get to that point, the interoperability is going to be super important as well because, like I said, the intent is what's important, not the gate, not the, not the, not the path you take to get there. So it's like okay, I want to use my funds in this wallet to get to this application and it shouldn't matter what chain it's on, where it is, and I just want to use this thing because it adds value to my life and I don't want to have to go through an education curriculum to make it happen. So I think, interoperability and abstraction I think we're getting to the point where the onboarding points are getting easier, but I think we have a lot of work to do from the point of onboarding to essentially connecting user with application and the intent of the user with the endpoint far quicker and far easier, if that makes sense wow, that was.

Cynthia Bahati: 47:21

That was deserving of a round of applause. Yeah, I, if you could teach a course on that, I would sign up and take that course because, um, even like working in in crypto, I think that I'm still learning new things about different abstractions and methods and stuff like that. So wonderful breakdown.

JB Carthy: 47:40

Thank you, john like, listen, I like, like, again I'm I don't have the solutions, like.

JB Carthy: 47:45

I'm not claiming in any way that I know the solution to the problem, but it's just cases like we're always trying to solve for users and I know there are like abstraction solutions out there and they're getting like easier and easier and easier to use and they're like removing more and more of the complexities gradually, but it's probably going to get to the point. Like you know, gas fees, like we just take them for granted, but they're such uh like I know when I like it they're just such a mad topic to get your head around when you don't understand the technology, when you don't understand the revenue generation of the um, when you don't understand the revenue generation methods of the like networks themselves and the value of staking like, and even when you do at the start, it's still like like a pain to like have to yeah, no, do you?

JB Carthy: 48:29

have gas in certain wallets. Oh, if I bridge here to try and get to this application, how do I get gas into the wallet? And all these different considerations. So I think really, all I'm all I'm trying to think about is like, how are we going to make it as simple as possible? Or what future innovations do I see that are going to make it as simple as possible for users to connect with applications and look, some of them may come to pass, some of them may not, but we can all speculate and we can all kind of think about what the future may hold and contribute to the discussion.

JB Carthy: 48:59

But I just want to flip it back and learn more, like we've gone through so much. And, by the way, if anyone in the audience wants to come up and ask a question, and if you're tired of listening to me asking questions, just request the mic. Request the mic and pop up. Um, but yeah, I'd love to hear more. So obviously you guys jumped in in terms of helping SWE, who are, like, pretty successful at the moment, and in terms of their growth over the last few months, and but obviously you guys have a significant role in growing their discord community or their closed community from a small number of people to a large number of people. So I'd love to hear more about some of the, the tactics, the strategies you got you guys implemented and maybe, like you know, some of the ones that worked back then that might not work so well now, and some of the strategies you see people like you see like more modern strategies or things you see working, more of going forward, if that makes sense.

Cynthia Bahati: 49:52

Yeah, well, real quick, I pinned Emily's post, which Emily, if you guys don't know, is, she has this marketing chat or group is where I met John, where we connected. Or group is where I met John, where we connected, and it's so funny she was saying about how she, one of her friends, learned about DeFi through, again, word of mouth, which is quite a funny affirmation of what we're talking about. Yeah, so with SWE, like you said, they've had massive success and we came on with SWE in 2022. So way before they're at, way before Mainnet and where they're at now, and we kind of laid the foundation for early community moderation and at that time, the social marketing team was one person, one person and so we were like her, help support um with community moderating and then later, more of the social stuff. It was the first time I got to work on social, like analytics and using social listening tools like uh sprout social, and I would recommend that for anyone. Again, agencies use Web2 marketing social listening tools to help their data analytics and inform their marketing tactics, and at the time we didn't have Kaido, we didn't have a lot of the Web3, crypto, twitter, social analytics tools and data tools. So now there's so many more resources that we didn't have before. Now there's ways to see what your company's mindshare is on crypto, twitter, which I think is insane and amazing. But, yeah, I would say um, but I would say data and um. Tracking data was a big part of what we did, um, so everything was sort of backed by data and um, one of the like.

Cynthia Bahati: 51:55

On the community building side, I was really interested, um, in studying game loops, like what makes games and mobile games so attractive. How can we retain community members? By incorporating some of these gamification tactics in our marketing and in our comms and when we're like connecting with people in the community. So we did have gamification and when you would enter the discord, you would get a role and there was ways you can like game your way through the hierarchy or the ladder of the community by attending twitter spaces, by being active, by reaching so many you know conversation points and, yeah, gamification is something that I saw a lot. I don't see too much anymore and I think that's because teams have moved away from Discord and Discord allows really like sophisticated ways of like monitoring data and monitoring community to like Telegram, and Telegram does have data analytics, but they're not as sophisticated, I'd say as Discord, but I would love to see a resurgence of gamification in crypto marketing and in crypto community building. But yeah, that was really our thing.

Cynthia Bahati: 53:09

How can we gamify this? How can we make this content sticky? How can we make this product sticky? Um, so the user acquisition journey was very important to us and it's still something that I use today at Scrib3.

Cynthia Bahati: 53:25

I will walk different clients through the user acquisition journey and has it as it relates to web three, because it's a very different well, not very different. Fundamentally it's the same, but there's different channels and different ways. We like, uh, we measure the metrics for a user journey in web 3 versus web 2. Um, so, like, the fundamentals in marketing stay the same. I would say data having like the fundamental, like content pillars and stuff like that, like all the fundamental marketing strategies stay the same. Um, with sweet, it was just we had this product, which I think helps when you're marketing with a great product, a great team, and we had freedom to kind of do what we saw fit and freedom to experiment, and those in combination, I think, is what allows for magic to happen when you're working with the right people. And yeah, I've always just been a growth focused marketer. So my our team's main goal was growth. How can we grow this and it?

JB Carthy: 54:39

was just like a great environment to to do that. No, 100 percent. And I'm interested to hear, like you, you know a little bit, a little bit more specifically, and you know even just a couple of things and you talked about, like, the importance of analytics, the importance of managing day or measuring data and taking actions based off it. But yeah, like just maybe for the marketers listening on in the audience and and we probably have a couple more things to discuss after this but, um, for the people listening on the audience, what are some of the ways that, like, let's say, you would have used the analytics or the data to guide some of the strategies and gamification you would have implemented?

Cynthia Bahati: 55:14

yeah, so okay on the. So there's two sides to this. There's community and marketing, which, um, for a lot of times are under the same bucket, but there's a there's a little bit of nuance and difference. So, for the community side side of things, we used data analytics to determine the demographic of people who are already in the community so that we can create messaging that's sort of tailored to them. We found that we had a large number of Chinese community members, for instance, but we didn't have any Chinese content for them, so it was inaccessible for them. So data helped inform ways that we could better serve the existing community.

Cynthia Bahati: 55:50

And in terms of the social side of things, I find data helps ways for us to understand what our competitors are saying or what they're not saying, and to hear sort of what the audience or the community at large, what their sentiment is like.

Cynthia Bahati: 56:08

People that may not be in the Discord, but people who you know tweet about SWE or whatever on Twitter, and data analytics.

Cynthia Bahati: 56:16

On the social side, it helps with determining impressions and a lot of growth marketing is experimentation, like I think Duolingo does a great job of growth marketing, like their tweets are so funny and off the wall that, um, yeah. So you kind of, when you experiment with new ideas, you it's it's good to have data to say, okay, well, this idea was great, it went viral, maybe we can like try to replicate some of the processes that went into this campaign. Or on the same side, you can say, well, this, we didn't hit like key metrics here and the data kind of shows maybe we can like experiment again. So, yeah, the data helps with experimentation and it helps with like growth-led comms, and I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah, that's how I would say it and I don't know if that answers your question, but, yeah, that's how I would say it Answers it like massively, and even you know that insight and it's such a simple thing to implement.

JB Carthy: 57:09

But, like the data of where users are coming from and catering for them to make sure that, like, there's enough language, specific content to entertain and inform them, is like it's so simple.

JB Carthy: 57:27

But it's actually something I haven't really even thought about. Like we talk about the global world and we just spend ages talking about the global world, but that is just such an easy way if you notice users coming from a certain region and, yeah, an incredible insight. I think it's a simple but effective way people can, could use data. So, and I've definitely even learned one thing from that and I think, yeah, great insight in exactly what I was kind of thinking or looking for. So I suppose you know it's the simple things that work best sometimes and you know, I think you were touching on as well this was in the era where you're more managing and growing communities, but then you're moving on to obviously now more of a marketing side of things and with Scrib3, and I'd love to just know, like what you see as the nuances between and community and marketing, and then what motivated your decision to move in a more marketing direction than a community direction?

Cynthia Bahati: 58:18

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a great question. I think I am someone who follows sort of my intuition with things. Yeah, that's a great question. I think I am someone who follows sort of my intuition with things. I still enjoy community management work and I think I'll always have a heart for community management. But for me, with socials, I saw a lot of potential for growth. I like to challenge myself, I like to better myself and I think that I saw, yeah, just great potential with social media and I really do. I like comms and copywriting, so it just was kind of a natural fit for me.

Cynthia Bahati: 58:52

And to answer your question of like what we're doing specifically with marketing and how I see that differs from community management, and moderation is like with, I guess a good way to understand that is, with marketing and with social media management, you are essentially building and maintaining a brand right. The brand architecture is very important to the role that I do, which I wasn't anticipating Um. But building a story brand and having um tools and resources and knowledge about um, like human psychology is, is, I think, more nuanced in marketing than it is in community management. Um, community management is more so like fostering new community members and the ones that are there. It's very people focused Um, like when I with the work that I do today, it's more so like how do I um communicate a brand's value to people so that people can connect emotionally to, to the brand? And how do we create like the Nike of crypto? Or how do we create like the Apple of crypto, like how do we create these world-class brands that will transcend time and um that people can have sort of these emotional connections to and that um is sort of like the overall. What we do and obviously the um the day-to-day is uh is creating content and and using um, the written uh, post and long form content to to really convey um company's values, to articulate their you know, their technical product in ways that make sense, again, in ways that are accessible.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:00:48

Um, what else I feel like with like, I guess like baby, maybe the like. The clearest distinction is like. Community is about um. Community is about making sure the heart of the project is alive and beating and making sure that people are happy to be a part of the community, because community is everything in crypto and if you're working on community side of things, you have to be organized and a people person Like. There's no way around it, whereas marketing is more. It's more about. It's less about how the community perceives you and more about how the world perceives you or doesn't perceive you. Yeah, so I think that's the distinction.

JB Carthy: 1:01:32

I think that was that last. I think that last line was very succinctly put like community is about how, like the people perceive you and then, like, the marketing is about how the world perceives you. I think that's like a great distinction and a great heuristic, like you could kind of like, carry and apply and use it to guide decisions. So, again, another great insight that, like, I'm kind of going to carry with me after this and anyone in the audience probably who's into these kind of things or working in this sort of space probably has also gained a lot of insights. Um, from cynthia and so far, I I suppose a couple of last questions before we and maybe wrap it up.

JB Carthy: 1:02:09

The first. The first one is obviously leading on from what you were just chatting about there. You were saying about, like, okay, where is the next and big brand going to come from? But not only the next big brand, but the, the first massive brand and that builds a product on blockchain and we're using web3, and where do what is the best brand you've seen so far? Or are there any brands you look up to that you think are doing like a really, really good job and getting close to what you would consider to that and kind of achievement or like yeah, like, what are your favorite brands in the space that you look at and go, okay, they, they're doing a great job of that.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:02:46

Yeah, that's a really, really great question. I think. I think Coinbase is probably the most established brand in terms of, like, large awareness, like a lot of people know about Coinbase around the world. It has a very secure and positive brand image and they do a good job of constantly um conveying what they're about and communicating that and also reinventing themselves, like creating a blockchain, like base. Like that is so cool, right? So I think Coinbase is doing probably the best job Um and um.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:03:23

I don't want to, I don't want to shade anyone, but I think, for instance, ethereum has great product and great technology, but isn't doing as well as a job at marketing. I don't think they care to market themselves, sadly, but one day I'd love to be CMO of Ethereum. One day I'd love to be CMO of Ethereum. Another smaller company that's, I think, doing a great job at team-led marketing is Eclipse. They have a great visual identity that's consistent across Twitter and everyone on their team has the same background image. So when I'm scrolling and I see someone with a green background and um a green banner, I know that they work in eclipse and I think that's just a great way to build memorability and um have like this visual component to the brand which is very important in branding.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:04:18

Um, I think magic Eden is doing a good job. I think that their social team is killing it. I think that they have a great like, really relatable way of like communicating with their audience. Who else? I feel like I'm forgetting someone, but yeah, those are the ones I think that are doing a really good job.

JB Carthy: 1:04:41

No, I'd agree.

JB Carthy: 1:04:42

Like you know, I think the things you touched on strong visual identity, strong messaging, team members amplifying the message and all these things are kind of like components that you could probably identify in all of the strong, strong, growing brands and then the ones that maybe aren't doing so well and, aside from maybe just not having good product and or not having good value for users, you can probably say the inverse and that like not so cohesive, not so memorable messaging isn't so strong and and and so consistent across team members and and yeah, like I, it's probably.

JB Carthy: 1:05:18

There's probably common themes you can pick up and I think you've touched on and quite a fair few of them there. So, again, I appreciate that and appreciate the insights, but I'll leave you on this and I don't want to. I don't want to hold too much more of your time, but I'd be really interested, I think anyone listening in who's involved in the marketing socials and has responsibility for growing an audience in web3. If you were to leave someone who wants to grow an audience in Web3 with maybe one last piece of advice, what would you say that would be?

Cynthia Bahati: 1:05:55

Wow, determine your why. Determine your why, because your why is going to be different for everyone. For me, I might be passionate about more, about marketing and getting more people to become web three marketers, so the way I show up and my comms should reflect that. Right, and you are an excellent interviewer and maybe you want to grow your ecosystem and your community, so the way that you show up is just being consistent. In interviews, for example, right, just as an example.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:06:26

I think everyone's why is different, but I think having a very strong like why am I tweeting today? Is very important, because you often find that people can get scattered, like they'll tweet about something and I struggle with this as well Like I don't have the most consistent brand, but the brands that do well are very consistent and they give information consistently. Right, and when you follow someone, you typically follow someone because you want to get something from them, whether you want to get information or you want to see their pretty pictures or whatever. And I think having a strong why helps you in days when you're like, okay, what am I talking about today? And which happens in life? Right, sometimes you just want to tweet about what you had for lunch, but just being cognizant that that may fit in with what your audience wants and it may not Um, but having a strong why will will always help.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:07:30

Kind of um will help you guide what you say to or guide what you want to say to ultimately, like um, impact your audience. So even if, like, I really adamantly want to talk about my lunch that I had today, if my why is to get more people into marketing, for instance, I can kind of end my, my, my tweet about my lunch Like I had lunch today and it got me thinking about marketing or something like that. You know it doesn't have to be that cheesy, but yeah, having a strong why is is what I would uh tell people no, I, I agree.

JB Carthy: 1:08:05

I think, like that that's a fantastic point in terms of like being clear about why you want to show up, what value you're adding to people. And then I think another thing you touched on is like knowing your strength as a communicator and if you're responsible for growing a brand, is it like written, is it audio, is it video, is it imagery? And knowing how you can like your speciality, your strength, your skill set in terms of conveying messages and like, yeah, you use, you use your strengths. But, like, all I'm thinking about now is like I'm expecting that lunch picture tomorrow. Like you know, I want to. I want to know what you had for lunch. So, but aside from that, like, all I can say is thank you so much for coming on. I think that was a wonderful note to end it on.

JB Carthy: 1:08:47

And this was Helios Horizons, episode 36. And today we chatted with Cynthia, socials and marketing manager at Scrib3 about building a Web3 audience and how to bring attention to your product, how to build a strong community, and a fantastic episode. Really enjoyed chatting to you and thank you so much for coming on.

Cynthia Bahati: 1:09:07

Thank you so much. I had a great time.