Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Helios Horizons, episode 44. Today we're chatting about making yields simple with Delame Strafiel of Autoscale. Welcome, my friend, looking forward to chat. How are you today?

Speaker 2: 0:17

Hi, mr Gibia, Thanks a lot for having us here. I'm great. Actually it's the end of the day. Here in France we had a rough day, but an exciting day, as we are working on our private mainnet, then we're going to talk about that, I guess. But, yeah, very excited and looking forward to talk with you. So, yeah, we postponed. I guess now it's from two months from now. We tried a first time and the communication was bad, so today it's a good day to to correct the the, the shot, so to speak no, definitely man, definitely the internet.

Speaker 1: 0:50

The internet's definitely faring a little bit better today. But, um, before we jump into maybe some of the, some of the things autoscale are doing, and maybe a little bit more about autoscale specifically in defy and some of these things, and maybe we'll have a little bit of chat about your own background in the space, how you got into Web3. So maybe, yeah, like who is Sonny? How did we get to this point of building Autoscale?

Speaker 2: 1:16

Wow, that's a great question. I'll try to make it short, but, yeah, I come from a long shot, so speak because, uh, firstly, uh, I, uh, my field of study was med school. I was in med school in canada first. So, uh, I started in science, but not in this field, um. Later on I pursue, um, a master degree in uh in market finance, and that uh led me to work as a trader and a macro analyst for portfolio management. So I did that for two and a half years and after that I was traveling and I was already familiar with the blockchain technology itself and I was curious about a possible way to get in without having a strong background knowledge in programming.

Speaker 2: 2:20

So, and on my road, on my journey, I find someone and he was looking for someone with my kind of expertise, and he said you know what I'm going to take over? I would like to build a team to take over from Autoscale, because there is an opportunity there. And this guy is Petrus and we met a little bit there. I think it's roughly a year ago. I think it's roughly a year ago, we met online on a group where I was acting as an advisor for macroeconomics, and we met because it was in the same region of the world, in the east side of France, and he was explaining to me that Autoscale could be an opportunity to, let's say, have our hands onto something into the Web3. And this led us to give it a shot, a try.

Speaker 2: 3:15

And we met the CTO, which is Quentin. He was the builder of the programming part, so to speak, the code on Rust, and we met him as well. And, yeah, the community was already expecting the product, so it was a good timing, so to speak. So here am I with the team we have. We are five and more or less my background, like I just told you, is something roughly over 20 years. I started as a military at first and then I was shifting into med school 14 years ago 13 years ago, actually and seven years in university for that part of the study and then market finance, and yeah, so roughly my last 10 years has been on this, on this field of expertise, so to speak sweet man and, like you're in med school in canada, are you you from canada originally?

Speaker 1: 4:21

Are you from Canada originally?

Speaker 2: 4:23

Actually, I was born and raised in France, but when I was a teenager, I was competing in gymnastics men's gymnastics and this led me to Canada, because my father was expatriate there, because he was working in the field as a computer engineering, and so he left when I was a child, when I was 10. And this gives me this opportunity, when I was a teenager, to go to school there, because gymnastics was much more competitive and stronger in Canada for my generation, and I decided to give a shot. And this is where I, let's say, I take a chance and I went there. And, yeah, this is, I'm half-half, so to speak, half Canadian, half French, but my mentality and my culture is mostly has been designed by, let's say, canada, and my studies is over there, we're over there, so I'm just French by passport, but I'm mostly a traveler and a citizen of the world, so to speak.

Speaker 1: 5:38

No, for sure, but you're more about like maple syrup and mousse than like baguettes and berets.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's the way to put it, but where?

Speaker 1: 5:49

where in uh france? Where in france did you come? Where in france did you come from and where in canada did you go to?

Speaker 2: 5:56

uh, canada was montreal. Um, I spent some time on the in the on the west, on on the on the west side as well, but just episodically speaking, most of my time was in Montreal and in France he was across the German border in Strasbourg.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Oh, sweet man, so would you be. Would you consider yourself a fan of either, or, but like would you be more about? Like the ice hockey? Is it the Montreal Canadiens, Am I right? Oh, yeah, yeah, are you more of a about like the, the ice hockey?

Speaker 2: 6:26

is the montreal canadians and am I right?

Speaker 1: 6:27

oh, yeah, yeah, are you more of a strasbourg like sc, like kind of guy, like which are? Which are we talking like? Uh, you see, mark mark is the co-founder of helios and he's here in a, he's here in the chat and you can see him repping the ottawa senators logo oh okay, no, I find myself as very keen of the Canadian hockey team.

Speaker 2: 6:49

Actually, when I was a teenager, it was, you know, for a French teenager, when I was 14, I'm roughly 40 today, so just to give you a little bit of a timeframe. So when I was younger, when I was in my youth, it was kind of a dream for a kid to watch hockey real in a stadium where, when I was in France at that time, nobody knows what's hockey. So, yeah, canadian has a huge impact on me. That's why I wanted to learn about how to skate. So, yeah, mostly Canadian in my mind.

Speaker 1: 7:22

Sweet man Sweet. Did you get to watch the Canadians lift any Stanley Cups while you were living there?

Speaker 2: 7:29

Unfortunately not the last time they won the Cup. I guess. Correct me if I'm wrong I think it's in 1993.

Speaker 1: 7:39

You're right man, I brought up Wikipedia there just to check it out. It is 1992-1993. Yeah, because I have a t-shirt on that year. Right man? I brought up wikipedia there just to just to check it out, and it is 92, 93.

Speaker 2: 7:45

so and yeah, because I have a t-shirt on that year but since nothing happened, but they went, I think because it was hard for me to follow uh, uh, and I'm not really a huge. I'm not a crazy fan, to be honest. There was, uh when I was younger, but when you grew up, you tend to mitigate this aspect. I'm not a crazy fan or a soccer crazy guy this is definitely not me but I like the fact that this reminds me this is where I come from. So it's more as a nostalgic and it's more as an inner feeling, so to speak.

Speaker 1: 8:21

No for sure, man for sure. But anyway, you made your way over to canada and went to med school and then made a big change to market finance, which obviously probably kind of that pivot kind of led you to the point and where you're at now, kind of working in blockchain, defy these things, and but yeah, like, what was it like making first getting into med school and then like what was kind of the driving force behind changing and changing paths? Because obviously med school and then, like what was kind of the driving force behind changing and changing paths? Because obviously med school, medicine is a, is a career a lot of people would be interested in pursuing, but obviously maybe to step away from that and pursue something different is, um, yeah, like, obviously I'd be interested to learn more about like what led you down that path oh, wow, uh, actually.

Speaker 2: 9:03

Uh, to be fully transparent, it was when I was in the army. I was in a combat unit and I was exposed to some of the gruesome things you can imagine on the battlefield. And at some moment I had, at some point, I had a friend he was a chess player and we play a lot together and then he was a medic in my team and one day I assisted him on some emergency case and in my mind I was sure that the guy was not recovering from what we just I was a witness of something. And six months later I talked with the guy on the internet because he was transported by chopper in Germany. I was in Afghanistan. At this moment, I realized that the guy was able to speak properly, but he was in terrible shape when we left him.

Speaker 2: 9:56

At this moment, I asked my friend that it was a dog and I said, okay, explain to me. How was that possible? There was no way in my mind. He said you know what the human body is? A magnificent, let's say, structure and he gave me a book about human physiology and I started to read it when I was in Afghanistan and this planted a seed in my mind and nothing, that four years later I was knocking at the door at the medical faculty in Montreal.

Speaker 2: 10:27

I was doing my how you call that application. So I passed some tests and stuff I need to do math and physics, whatever and I wanted to understand the way the brain functions. So I registered for a neuroscience to be more precise, and this is why I decided to start this field of study. So it was fascinating, and it was also linked to my background in gymnastics, because I learned a lot about how the body works and, let's say, on a performance level. So it was everything to connect the dots that were missing. When I was, let's say, more active, I was just doing things, and now I was more at the stage I need to understand how it works, why it works this way, and I want to, let's say, get better at understanding the things, and this is why incredible man, and how long.

Speaker 1: 11:23

How long did you spend in Afghanistan or go on tour in Afghanistan?

Speaker 2: 11:28

I spent a little bit less than a year. It was 10 months or so. Yeah, afghanistan, very tough, I mean it depends. I'm here to speak, but some of them were less lucky than I am. So I'm here to speak, but some of them were less lucky than I am. So I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 2: 11:47

But it opened eyes on the fact that you put in perspective what is going on behind the curtain between politics and media, understanding exactly the implication why you are there. We were acting on the, let's say, on the good level of intelligence. I was lucky to be in a good unit for that and but also I was starting to ruminate something inside of me that made me realize I'm working at a benefit of a cause that it's not mine, realize I'm working at a benefit of a cause that it's not mine. I was really feeling that something is off and the world is going very, very wrong, specifically because of the action of the American, what they did in Iraq.

Speaker 2: 12:35

I worked with American soldiers for a couple of years as well and all in all, long story short, this led me to wanting to quit the army. I said, okay, I spent enough time there. I saw what I wanted to saw and I need to do something else because I'm not on the mentally level I agree. I do not agree with what's going on in a political level and what they do with the soldiers. Why they do it? Because everything is a fugazi. You know it's a shit show on the world stage level. You're just working at the benefits of bankers, so to speak. Roughly put it this way it's a little bit incorrect, but mostly nowadays it is.

Speaker 1: 13:28

So, yeah, it's. It's a little bit um, incorrect, but mostly nowadays it is uh. So yeah, yeah, you just kind of felt the need to like, take a different path. That wasn't really for you anymore, like the cause wasn't wasn't um, you weren't aligned with anymore yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:39

There is definitely some, some issue that needs to be treated like, because people are suffering. But when you witness some stuff here and there and you hear what's at stake on, let's say, on mainstream media and you understand that there is a huge gap between what's really happening, what we are doing, what people are doing over there, and what they are selling in TV and in the newspapers you realize that something is really off.

Speaker 1: 14:11

Yeah, yeah. And then like so obviously you moved out of that and like maybe came out of that experience and took a different direction, going towards um. You're saying like a master's in market finance and then working in finance for 30 months so how was the? Or for two and a half years, how was the transition, um, from the army to like a very non-physical situation and sector? How, how did you enjoy it? How was it?

Speaker 2: 14:34

uh, actually it was. Uh, I think it was a logical following up because, uh, when I left med school so I work, uh, in a clinic over there, so I was really interested by science, mathematics and physics. And my first guess when I when I went there, it was because I was curious about physiology. But in my mind I was witnessing some people going into HEC so it's a famous business school and they were learning about markets and I was studying in this library as well. So I made friends over there and I was really, really excited about what they were talking about. Because there was, I was feeling the pressure that we had in the army but managing funds and money and lots of money. So this sends as well seed in my brain. I finished my my study in in in neuroscience first and I knew that at some point I don't know how to explain, but one day I want to do that because I I want you to understand what's at stake in this field of expertise. I want to understand what is banking in a at the high level, like what is going on behind the curtain as well, because I knew something is off, because I had friends that studied that. So this opportunity presented itself. I decided to do my master on my own. So I did not went to university for that, because I have everything I need. I understand mathematics and economy. I studied that because of a friend of mine that tell me exactly what I should study if I want to do that. So I did that on my own.

Speaker 2: 16:09

And during a travel when I was in Romania, I came across someone that is from United States. He studied in Harvard in computer engineering and he was looking for someone with a scientific background. So we talked, we spent three weeks together in Bucharest and he said you know what, maybe I know someone that could hire someone like you if you like. And long story short from what goes on, and a couple of months later I was in London meeting someone and he tested me. He gave me a shot and I started as a junior analyst. So this is, of course, the lowest rank you can get in a trading floor.

Speaker 2: 16:52

I was working in a front office and it was really exciting on an experience level. It was a terrible job, to be honest. People are crazy. You're working like 15 hours a day. It's everything you can imagine. But with my background I was really lucky to be there because usually my background should have been different, so I knew it was a chance. I learned something completely new. It was very challenging. I loved this experience, but I was happy to left as well also. So all in all, uh, long story short, because enough talking about me. I'm not really used to it, but yeah, this is, this is how it happens.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Uh, all together sweet man no 100. I think it's interesting. So, yeah, coming up to autoscale now and like how you um got involved with auto scale and how you guys are building and coming along, I'm sure that experience definitely, um definitely stood you in good stead and you learned a lot from it. And but let's say, what was it about the experience in like trad fire on the trading floor and um in the traditional financial sector that then led you to the path where you're now at DeFi and you're now working in blockchain and building the next generation of financial infrastructure.

Speaker 2: 18:15

Oh well, that's a good question. Actually, that was kind of how to say that it's an elephant in the room when we talk about Bitcoin, right? How to say that it's an elephant in the room when we talk about Bitcoin, right? So actually, to better understand why let's talk about, let's say, the revolution about what blockchain is, because I think there is a misunderstanding by most of the people Because for them it's just all Bitcoin is just another currency, or you hear some here and there, some misunderstanding about what it is. But when you think about that and this is what I was realizing when I was as a trader, because we were talking about that as well Some of our customers was exposed a little bit of the portfolio, but some of them asked to buy some Bitcoin, which is another topic as well.

Speaker 2: 19:06

But in the 90s, internet was a revolution. Why? Because in the US, they wanted to have something to send information. Specifically come from science studies between the West Coast and the East Coast, and they want something fast, and this is where internet comes into place. So internet was built to send intelligence and information across the globe in less than a second for almost no costs. And what is blockchain, when you think about. That is just information on another level, and this information is value. So blockchain allows to send values anywhere on the planet within a second, no matter the amount, what value it is, and for, as well, almost no cost. So this is the real revolution of blockchain. So we understood I mean for me.

Speaker 2: 19:59

I understood that the banking system, in the way that traditional finance was conducting, will change, whether or not it wants to change, because you cannot be competitive with blockchain. So you are right now as a traditional banking system, because of the structure of the payroll salaries, you have to handle the fees that are completely obscene, because otherwise you cannot sustain that type of business product. So that's why people say you know what? How can I buy some bonds or some stocks? It's too expensive. Yeah, it's expensive in the old model. Today, this will be possible, it's already being possible and it will be even more possible tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 20:47

And this is why going into the Web3, to me, was the logical follow-up, so to speak. And this is where blockchain is meeting traditional finance for good, finance for on good, because, depending on which side of the coin you decide to put yourself or to look, it's not, it's so traditional banks should not necessarily view DeFi as a threat, but rather as an opportunity for innovation and service enhancement, and this is exactly what is going on now. Today, with banking as a service, look, new banks. So by integrating certain DeFi technologies into their operations, they can offer more competitive products that are better aligned with the needs of modern customers.

Speaker 2: 21:36

For instance, some banks are already exploring the use of smart contracts right to automate processes such as payments, settlements, loan management, even insurance delivery. So this could not only reduce operational costs, but also improve the efficiency and speed of transactions. And this is everything behind a desk and in a traditional banking system. It's the way to be more efficient, speed transaction and reduce costs, and this is what defines a good, sustainable bank. So that's why blockchain is so exciting in this way.

Speaker 1: 22:13

No, 100%, and I think you're obviously probably better placed, but I think it's clear to see that maybe institutional attitudes to Bitcoin and these things are changing.

Speaker 1: 22:23

You look at like America, you look at the ETFs, you look at like the likes of Argentina, el Salvador and USA obviously as well, building the strategic reserves and their reserves of Bitcoin and their reserves of bitcoin and and, yeah, there's like an attitude, and probably the next layer now is like and how do we financialize these things and what will the integration be of? Like blockchain, as you're saying, like into their services rather than just holding, holding bitcoin and and it'll be interesting to um see, see how that unfolds. And so, yeah, like from there, like, let's say, you see these things, you see, um, you see maybe a skepticism towards um blockchain and you see the opportunity that you do think, if this technology is adopted, and that it could help a lot of the processes for banks and financial financial institutions. How do you you think the attitudes towards blockchain and what it could offer and bring, how those attitudes are at the moment in the financial sector as a whole, based on your experience?

Speaker 2: 23:33

Well, that's a great question, because I left the institution a couple of years from now. But it depends on where you look on the planet. You see, there is, let's go simple, and let's say, there is the middle, which is Europe, there is the west side, which is America, and there is the east part let's call it Indian Ocean or Asia. Those are completely three different markets. There is the one in the middle, which I would say is the worth, because it's governed by, well, as you know, brussels, and there is no really logical things going over there because there is a lot of, let's say, opposite streams. So it's hard to find, let's say, a captain with a strong vision to say exactly what he wants to do and understand this technology. This is why they're always late on mostly every technology. Look, ai, europe is completely behind. It's the last one on this race. So, on the other hand, we have what's going on in China? This is another story. So, on the other hand, we have what's going on in China. This is another story. So they are leading nowadays AI markets. I'm very familiar with China market, by the way, because this is this focus, most of my attention, and everything is going on around this sector of the of the planet is building fast and they have no, let's say, philosophy problems about using those technology. In America, it's say philosophy problems about using those technologies In America it's a different story. They are building strong on that and the market is very strong on this technology alone. But I think it's hard to project and to know exactly where this is going, because I'm not, let's say, a medium, but what I understand about this technology, I think it's unstoppable. The technology itself. Because even though, let's say, europe go completely berserk and say, ok, you know what, we're going to deny it and we're going to forbid the population to use it, ok, no problem, but there will be other markets around that will not do the same. So companies will just export themselves where it's regulation friendly.

Speaker 2: 25:43

And as we speak, let's talk about French banks. They already have on their payrolls engineering that are building on blockchains, even though they don't want to admit it. But last year I went to Brussels for the ETHCC and I met some of the TradFi guy over there and we had a talk and some of them confessed that they on a trading floor. There is two ways to trade Whether you use Python or whether you use C++. Python is too slow, so you start first coding into Python and then you translate it into C++ just to make it simple, and then you have blockchain. So blockchain, you have now tons of layer one, and one day that will be the perfect layer one to be made, and she will probably collect a huge part of this market, because all the planet will be aligned, depending on what you want to provide.

Speaker 2: 26:47

If you are a broker, if you are a new bank, if you are a former model banking, you will have different needs depending on the persona you are targeting. What is your audience needs? Depending on the persona you are targeting, what is your audience? But today, what is the cornerstone in a market? It's money.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Therefore, it's customer space, and when you look at some recent new banks, such as N26, revolut, they have today, I think, something around 30 million customers across Europe and they have less than 10 years of existence, which is huge. So, traditional banking, they realize they're really asleep at the wheel and they missed. They are missing the train, so to speak. So you will have a much more stronger leverage to negotiate on a business level with them than ever before, because they will provide, let's say, credit card services, bank accounts, everything you need, as us, as anyone in the DeFi space, as long as you have customer base. And this is why this changed a little bit the game, the rules of the game, actually, and I think this is something they didn't forecast. They thought probably that regulation would go into in the same sense they want to impose and I'm talking about the Economic World Forum, as you know, davos and that type of person they fix the rules, but I cannot hamper the technology enhancements that we are witnessing with the blockchain. I think it's unstoppable.

Speaker 1: 28:34

No, I think that's what we're.

Speaker 1: 28:36

Look, you can't stop the decentralized technologies and obviously, like, bitcoin is the king of it, like you know, it has the most decentralized network that people have no idea, largely, where a lot of the nodes are and, like, the founders are anonymous and a lot of the people who hold it and mine it and these things are anonymous are anonymous and I suppose, as, as the technology is, that has evolved a little bit and as new kind of an ethereum um rolled out and then all the newer scalable blockchains and obviously multiverse, x being among them, um rolled out and there's probably just progressive um trade-offs as you move towards being trading off that ultimate form of, like an anonymity, decentralization and, yes, towards being a, towards building infrastructure that is compliant with and is going to like be adopted by governments, institutions, gives them a greater customizability, control and all these things.

Speaker 1: 29:38

So, yeah, like it's. It's interesting. How do you think um it will, it will unfold in the next two, three years? Do you see um kind of the signs pointing towards we're going to see banks and really really adopting and integrating defy. We're going to see stock exchanges integrating defy, um and like the permissionless nature of markets and trading and some of these things to compete with, obviously, defi itself, which is open 24-7, 365. Do you think traditional institutions are not going to want to lose out on those opportunities, those users, that revenue, and it's going to force them to start to integrate and adopt the technologies?

Speaker 2: 30:24

Well, that's hard to. I mean beyond my simple opinion. There is nothing really concrete I can bring to the table because I don't know exactly where this is going. But, like you mentioned, I think that the market will be much more diversified. If you look at this way, we have, let's say, two mountains looking one to another and there is no bridge in between. So this huge hole between those two mountains will be filled at some point. The question is, how Will be many, many bridges, or will be filled at some point? The question is how Will there be many, many bridges, or will there be, I don't know, transportation that will not go into the ground? Or how will this happen? Let's say, the necessity will eventually get there. The how and the do's and the technical know-how, I think will depend on again on which part of the world you will build your company or the service you will try to provide to the market. Some ecosystem will be much more friendly than others. That doesn't mean that a hard regulation ecosystem is non-friendly. A hard regulation ecosystem, it's non-friendly. I'm just saying that that means there will be another way to conduct the business that you want.

Speaker 2: 31:46

I'll give you an instance. There's a lot of people that are today considered as poor people. When I'm saying poor, I'm not talking about people that are living on their own on the street, having no shelters and no room. I'm talking about this significant rising, about the richer getting richer and richer and the rest of the population getting poorer and poorer. Has been somehow since COVID and, to be honest, a little bit back in time, 2008,. From this moment, the capitalism as we know it is gone. It's completely changed. So the threshold has been significantly put higher. So that means there is like 700 million people on the planet that doesn't have really access to some banking system of quality, and this is where blockchain comes into play and could fill those gaps. So there is a huge, huge potential of new customers that today are under the radar of those institutions, but those institutions, even though they want to admit it or not, they will not do anything. Let's say, to do something about this part of the market, but something else is going to do it, and this will be allowed by blockchains. So I think the revolution is still.

Speaker 2: 33:14

When you look at the attraction portion, we are, as we speak, more or less 8 billion people on the planet, and today I just did the figures, I just did the calculation a couple of days ago for our pitch deck. We have less than 1%, to be exact, it's 0.69% of people that are using DeFi. So just to give you a hint, compared to internet, this is crazy early. So there is a lot of room for many, many new markets, new services that we do not think about because this is a completely new system going into place. So what do we have as stakes? We have brokers Today. Brokers. They can provide something else that they never did, which is bank accounts, credit card, due to the power of leverage they have now with the banking system. I just told you about Neobanks. Today, some banks give you 2.5% fees as a refund, so as an interest, as a return on your traditional banking account, which is crazy. Many people that doesn't even know that the central bank, the ECB, was giving interest on the bank account because traditional bankers don't tell you that. I mean at least in France, but on other countries as well. So because they need those fees, those returns, to stay afloat on a balanced account level. So all those holes will be filled somehow at some point as well.

Speaker 2: 34:58

The revolution of the property rights, because when you think about that, just to give you a more analogy that shocked me when I was looking at the figure Between October and December. Just think about that October last year and just recently, so 2024, between October and December, the market cap of crypto doubled. So the market cap of crypto in December was above the market cap of global energy, and that doesn't make any sense. If you think about that, the crypto market disappears. Nobody will be affected, let's say, to some extent, if, if you have 100 of your portfolio in crypto I'm sorry but this is dumb, but okay, this is to, I hope, some the, the this is not the point, but all lies will remain exactly the same, whereas if it's the energy market that disappears, well, brother, this is another story.

Speaker 2: 35:55

So you see, there is this decrepency and there is this completely uncorrelated logic in the market and this is what we saw that the market doesn't know exactly what's going on today. Everything is going sideways. Look at what's going on on the bonds market in the US. Look at what's going on in China. We know there is a huge stress and there is a huge gain to be made here and there, and I think the DeFi will be able to absorb before 2030, maybe between 12 and 17% of the markets, so it's huge compound annual growth rates. We're talking about 26% within the next five years. It's crazy 26% compound annual growth. It's something that we call emerging markets, a very, very used young market. So there is a lot of things to be built and to be made in this, in this, in this sense no, it's.

Speaker 1: 37:00

It definitely feels that way that, like the market is, as you said, like, first of all, we probably have bigger problems than crypto if the, if the energy market shuts down and we have no electricity or light or any of these things. But secondly, like you were saying, it definitely feels like crypto and blockchain and all these things are finding their place. The technology is emerging and over the next few years we're going to continue to see the growth as some of the technology and some of these advanced use cases start to be built on top of it for things like defy and real world assets and global payments and some of the other, some of the other obvious use cases that it's primed to serve really well. But coming on to autoscale itself, yeah, I'd love to. So I know you guys have been building for a while and there's now the private mainnet is live and, yeah, I'd love to just learn more about how things are going with you guys, how the development has been and, yeah, where's the development has been? And yeah, what? Where's the vision? Like I look?

Speaker 2: 38:01

yeah, let's just chat autoscale all right, uh, so, uh, okay, roughly, let's say, uh, when we took over, uh, around, uh, november, end of october, november last year, we had a lot of challenging between you know, the so-called decision. Okay, we took over, and so on. We need to find agreements, building the regulation part, building the companies on the legal part. So we started really building on the technical side from January, so to speak, what we wanted to do, okay, so first, we are on top of Hatton Protocol that you know, of course. So we wanted to make Decentralized Finance as intuitive and smooth as saving apps. Basically, I wanted to bring my background from, let's say, the traditional banking to something that is much more friendly for, let's say, everyday users. You, me, my mother, your uncle, anyone around you should be able to use it without having a PhD in Web3. So this must be very simple, but bring significantly better returns if we can and this is why Hatom was a good bet, I think, the way they operate. So because, as well, we believe that the next way of adoption we come from users, that we don't care about blockchains but care about what they can earn. Same to internet. People don't really bother about the way internet operates. What they want is to be able to send those pictures or those videos anywhere on the web, for whatever the reason, but they don't care about the technology. Same with the earnings and the returns.

Speaker 2: 39:46

I think this is the next wave, so to speak. The huge adoption will come by something simple. So the first thing that needs to be addressed is that DeFi is too complex for the average savers. So most people I mean let's face it DeFi is mostly intimidating, so the learning curve is steep, even for crypto native users. There is a lot of protocols and I know you have some in mind that, even if you want to use them, you need to focus and you need to be dedicated to it, and it's not something you do that when you come back from exhaustion about work and then you say, okay, I will manage my savings. No, so you need to jump through multiple hoops, switching wallets and so on, swapping tokens, adding liquidity, hoping you didn't make a mistake. So most of the people don't have the time or the confidence for that. So, as a result, I think you are losing 90% of the missing out, let's say, on yields that could change their financial future between low returns savings like something anything below 2.5%, which is roughly most of the saving accounts in Europe, and today on DeFi, we have something between 6% and 12% on stable assets.

Speaker 2: 41:00

I'm not saying speculation on crazy assets that go plus and minus 40% overnight. I'm talking about savings that brings retirements, pension funds, something you can bet the house on it, so to speak. So it's not a bet, it's a stable investment. It's different, so this is growing fast. We have I mean, the mismatch is massive. So we have over 80 million users today in DeFi. So they need a good gateway, a better gateway, and this is where autoscales come into place.

Speaker 2: 41:31

And for us, this is the first step. It's our first version. So we want to bring a fortless DeFi for everyone. So we turn a multiple-step process into a five-click experience, roughly between the moment you land on our landing page, the moment you decide, okay, what token you want to bring, and the moment you earn and you, let's say, you, collect your yield after a couple of months if you want to leave everything all in all, in less than five clicks. So it's very, very simple as well. You can deposit with any token that we will provide on the strategy and we handle the rest automatically converting, allocating, optimizing and compounding across vaults, because there is something that's as well as misunderstood, I think, by many people that act in DeFi is the notion of compounding. You know the term APY, the annual percentage yield. Many people think it's a real APY, but in fact it's not really, because APY, by definition, is taking into account the compounding of interest, but most of the protocol in DeFi do not do that. You have to do that by your own clicking with your mouse, therefore paying extra fees and gas to each transaction to do the compounding. In Autoscale. We do that for the customer himself, so when he's calling the compound function, actually we are rewarding him by the fees. So it's a win-win situation for the customer.

Speaker 2: 43:05

Going next, because Autoscale, as we speak, is very, very simple. It's from fiat currency to yield in under, let's say, two minutes. We are still discussing on exactly what will be the gateway, whether it's Xportal or XExchange or any other third party, but you can as well use a credit card. We would like to provide that as well, so people coming from the web tool will have no obligation to have a crypto wallet at first. We would like to make that as an account abstraction so they can interfere with our interface without even knowing that something is going on in the background. Of course, everything will be explicit, but visually speaking, the interface will be really simple. So it's just not another yield optimizer. So what makes us different? I would say that many different platforms are designed for developers and traders. Autoscale is designed for everyday users. So, as I told you, our UX is inspired by traditional banking apps.

Speaker 2: 44:12

Our second version I'm talking the first one is just as a launch, as our private maintenance. The second one should be live within the next three months, hopefully, and we will have also. Our platform is combining smart deposits, AI assistant, dfai and an ADV booster which will come. Our CTO is building the booster as we speak. More or less it's not a copy paste from the one that Hatom is providing. The one we're going to provide with our own token is just to provide some extra yield on top of the extra yield we already get because of Hatom. Hatom incubates us, so they give us some HTM token to boost our position to the maximum for our customers without having to interact with the HTM token. And on top of that, we would like to provide another booster from Autoscale, so to give extra boosts, extra yield on stable assets such as stable coins, so it's an all-in-one experience.

Speaker 2: 45:15

Of course, the biggest challenge is to be able to generate interest and validation, therefore attraction. So this is where being only multiverse six centered as we speak today is, of course, limiting, and we know that, and this is why we would like to be cross chain and to develop on other ecosystem as well, because there was a lot of liquidity to be made over there and we will be able to provide more strategy and more attracting product for this ecosystem that is very, very mutating, so to speak. So it's simple, it's scalable and it's sustainable. The good thing is as well, there is this security, safety, call it the way you want it. That always has been a thorn in the spine in the DeFi space. This is the problem that many people think it is so hacking, exposure of weaknesses in smart contracts.

Speaker 2: 46:17

So I think that if one day there is a label regarding audits, that a good company can provide, some labels, that will first gather a huge part of this market. Imagine you have a label as a traditional banking system that testifies that if you have this label on your platform or product you've built on the blockchain, you are, let's say, 99% bulletproof, for instance. Nothing is 100% safe and secure. But what is sure, centralization is definitely never secure. The more centralized you are, the more weak you are, and we are decentralized. So we have this in our quiver to back up us, and I hope one day a company will do this job, because this is waiting. I mean, a lot of institution awaits for these labels to be brought into daylight, to be live, because if one day this exists, I think there will be a shift. So another, let's say, the tap will pour with much more uh outputs than than today. Um no, it's all.

Speaker 1: 47:32

I think it's all, like I, incredibly interesting and I do agree with you and that, like, defy as a whole is too complex, is very complex right now for people to get involved in and to maybe learn how to set up a wallet, go to a protocol, learn what an LP pool is like, learn how to manage all the different aspects that go into generating their yield, and to have somewhere where they can come and they can just safely deposit, have trust in how the yield is being generated, know that it's being generated from real transaction fees and not from inflationary tokens, and then just leave their assets there and treat it like a savings account and that significantly outperforms maybe something they'd find in a bank is is very beneficial and and and something that I'm I'm definitely excited to try myself.

Speaker 1: 48:23

Like you know, know, even as a semi-experienced DeFi user, I'm excited to try something that means that, like I don't have to be as active, I don't have to pay as much attention, that I can just let my assets work in the background. How important do you guys think it is to go out and reach new, reach new markets, reach new people and, like, what's the balance between attracting the people who are already in DeFi, versus finding avenues to reach new people and and educate them about DeFi, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 49:01

Actually, yes, you are absolutely right. There is, let's say, a weak link in all this narrative is, let's say, the learning and the educational level, so bringing education. We already dedicate a part of the time we have on Autoscale to make, let's say, a link to educate people on exactly what it is and how it works, but to be, let's say, the simpler the better. So we're going to probably provide something, let's say, for completely beginners, something for intermediate people and, let's say, for more advanced people if they want to learn a little bit more. But it's exactly when you go to the bank let's say you have I don't know $1,000, and you go to a banker and say you know what? I would like to make my savings? To be making babies for me. What can you do? What product do you have? What risk am I exposed? Can you explain that to me?

Speaker 2: 50:10

Today, bankers are mostly commercials. 20 years ago, bankers were savvy people. They had a really strong knowledge of the system itself. I mean not to be pejorative with some bankers today, but most of them are inclined to that sense, and this is in DeFi. That doesn't even exist. There is no one taking you by hand and explain you exactly what you are doing and what are the potential risks.

Speaker 2: 50:39

Many people have heard about impermanent losses without really realizing what it is. Everybody knows what is a collateral without really understanding why in some many, many times the collateral is far-fetched in the ecosystem of DeFi. Why? Because when you have a collateral, usually it should not be correlated to the asset that has been collateralized. Otherwise, if one goes down from 20% and the other one is going 20% as well, what's the point of being collateral? So there is a lot of things, I think, to be explained to people, and by bringing light on this part of the ecosystem, the product itself will be redefining by itself, because the people, the audience, the persona, the customers, call it, whatever you like will probably ask for. I want this because now I know that exists, but before they don't.

Speaker 2: 51:38

So as soon as they understand the potential and what really can bring to the people, this could help the attraction to go, let's say, a step further. So it's not only the technology to be more efficient and so on, but we need to give a hand to the people to understand exactly what the technology can provide. Otherwise, how can we expect to get people to be on board if we do not give them the chance to understand what we are building and the possibility, and just by redefining exactly what's going on on the banking level. Let's call it the older model between. The model that we have today and this is why adoption of new banks has been a success is because people realized that something was missing. There was a missing link, and now there is as well some weak links. That needs to be filled as well, and I think this is the possible way to make adoption more massive, so to speak. So new markets as well, and making the bridge with people to make them understand, because in France I don't know, in Ireland or somewhere else, yeah, I have an idea, but in France specifically, half of an adult man, as a grown man that has a successful career, feel uneducated about finance.

Speaker 2: 52:59

That means, if you ask him, he cannot really explain what is finance and the way the money works. Imagine that. So there is a huge, huge gap to be filled over there, and this is not only in France. There is many, many countries around that is exactly the same. So DeFi is no exception.

Speaker 1: 53:17

No, definitely, people have just relied on the banks to kind of guide them, on the banks to kind of guide them, and it's becoming apparent that people need to take control of their own education and their own um, their own financial direction, rather than just relying on the information they've been fed for the last um number of years or decades, like you know. So it really is kind of a revolution that's that's happening at the moment. What should people be looking out for? Or how can people get involved with Autoscale or try it out or participate in what you guys are building? What should our listeners and anyone who listens back and be looking out for with you guys and how to join in and participate?

Speaker 2: 54:02

Okay. So, as we speak today, we are about five to 10 days for launching the mainnet to the public. So we are just finalizing the last stress test, just to be sure that everything will be smooth. And we'll go smooth and by the numbers, so to speak, when we're going to be live. We're going to provide two strategies. So if people would like to be exposed to some returns on USDC and Bitcoin, this is the first two assets we're going to provide, I think as we speak today. Give me just an instance. No, I will not give percentage, because I know that there will be a huge off balance when Hatom is going to provide us the token, because we are, like I told you, incubated by them. So we need to plug the address so we'll know much better when we have some liquidity. Now it's on a short, the scale is too low, so to speak, so to have something sustainable. So I don't know exactly where we're going with the figures, but mostly we will have USDC and Bitcoin at the launch. Then the interface will be very, very simple. I give you that it's not really sexy, but it's working. Three months from now, we will have, in parallel on that, we build a booster of our own booster. So we're going to provide an extra yield on top of that and we're going to provide some locking period so people will be able to collect an extra percentage depending on the period they would like to. Not block the funds the funds of our customer will be always self-custodial. Block the funds the funds of our customer will be always self-custodial, so they will be always able to withdraw at any times, whatever the strategy they're using. We do not want to block people. Even if they decided to choose to lock their ETS token for, let's say, six months, if they want to break the contract, they can withdraw at any time. So everything is fair and everything is transparent. So, uh, uh, this is the, the, the second, let's say second, step we are talking. Now we are middle end of april, so april, may june. The booster should be hopefully live, uh in in june, and the new dashboard that will be the banking dashboard type we would like to make live regarding summer. So this is the two next huge steps we are building. The booster is already been, it's brewing, so to speak. So it's just a matter of audits, conformity and to be sure that everything is safe for the customers. So if people want to follow us, they can follow us on X. Our communication team will deploy probably dates exactly when we will be live for the maintenance.

Speaker 2: 57:04

As I told you, something roughly between the next five and 10 days. This is the deadline and in parallel of that we are trying to build something else linked to Autoscale. But this is a little bit preposterous to speak about that, because I would like to bring something more of my expertise from the traditional finance to give a chance to people coming from the Web 2 then to get into the Web 3, rather than build something only on the Web 3 and give a chance to the people of the Web 2 to come on board. We would like to make the bridge ourselves, so we have a product in every ecosystem and therefore providing this, let's say, passageway directly from one to another. So we need to find a partner and a possibility to give the customers the free hands on their banking accounts, and this is where partnership with new banks and that type of companies would be awesome. But for that we need attraction, we need customers. So otherwise there is no power of negotiation and leverage in a business table.

Speaker 1: 58:10

Perfect. I'm really excited to try what you guys are building. Looking forward to going live on Mainnet, trying it out, getting to earn that easy yield on my stable coins or whatever. Thank you so much, galame, for coming on, really appreciate it, and best of luck with everything you guys are building in the near future.

Speaker 2: 58:35

Well, thanks a lot for you, gb, thanks for the time and for the team, adrian, and thank you all you guys from the Elios staking team. By the way, I saw a video on your website that you had Philip last year in the house in Barcelona and he's on our team. So you know, one of our, one of us, philippi, was there with you in in Barcelona.

Speaker 1: 59:00

If you're, you still have the house, yeah, yeah good guy, good guy like you, still have the house, that's beautiful. Yeah, good guy, good guy, like you know, repping, repping the French. Well, like you know, and doing, doing you guys proud.

Speaker 2: 59:11

Yeah, yeah, thanks. And he told me that I remember it was good times. He said, oh my God, I was a little bit jealous. I said, wow, those guys are working in a so chill environment. This is really exciting. So congratulations.

Speaker 1: 59:28

No, I appreciate it, man, I appreciate it. Listen, we'll all get there someday, like we'll all get there, like we're all on the path and things will be looking up and looking forward to seeing what you guys produce. So have a great.